5 ms·

What are the aspects that are considered superior for the older 7-row keyboards compared to the newer 6-row keyboards? I have always seen a lot of praise for th

What are the aspects that are considered superior for the older 7-row keyboards compared to the newer 6-row keyboards? I have always seen a lot of praise for the older 7-row keyboards but it is not clear to me what makes them superior and too much time has passed since I used one to remember the feel. Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? They do indeed have a very iconic look. Personally I enjoy the clear and sharp separation of keys I can feel on so called chicklet keys. I never liked the keys with lean sloping edges. For the same reason I prefer XDA keycaps for mechanical kkeyboards. And I think the 6-row arrangement alows for a larger touchpad.

eliasmacpherson 5y ago
> Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? Yes to all four. The chicklet keys remind my muscle memory that the layout has changed from what I am used to so 'touch typing' for anything that involves pgup/pgdn/home/end/insert/delete is now a chore to look and see where they have moved things. The most egregious crime I have seen on some models is there is no LED for fn or capslock anywhere, and is to be provided by the OS, such as the e550 and e330
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.
- alexvoda 5y ago
  I agree that there have been several misssteps (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) but I think there is a lot to like about the current itereation as seen on the T14 (1). It was even officialy converted into a wireless keyboard (2). Things I like in no paticular order: - Shape of keys: mostly flat chicklet but slightly scooped, rectangular with one curved edge, island style - Fn keys are separated in groups of 4 - Spacebar is exactly 5U long and alligned to CVBNM (I find verry annoying when this is not the case) - Modifier keys are vertically aligned to shift row keys - Home, End, Insert, Delete placement is reasonable (especially Esc is above ~, Delete is above Backspace and Insert is next to Delete) though I usually find Fn+arrows more mentally comfortable for PgUp/PgDown/Home/End - Media keys is great with leftmost group being audio, followed by display and then others - It's backlit - LED indicators for Caps and Fn A layout I might find even better is the japanese version(3). I would actually prefer to have the spacebar only as wide as VBN and have 2 more modifier keys left and right. This version however has one key to much to the left of the spacebar. (1) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.... (2) https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KBD-BO-TrackPoint-KBD-UK-English/p/4Y40X49520 https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa... (3) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_....
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    Unfortunately they just remind me of bad memories. The aftermarket external keyboards are the solution for me. > (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) Normally I would thank somebody for bringing something like this to my attention, but I actually don't even want to know and will try and blot this sentence out from my memory now.
    - alexvoda 5y ago
      Than, to your horror, here is how it looks (1). Thankfully it was only used on the Gen 2 of the X1 Carbon. The thing is, the concept of the touchbar (especially as technically implemented by Apple with a matte texture) is actually great. The great mistake was having it replace the Fn-row. If it was placed above the Fn-row, the touchbar would have been great. (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ
sdfjkl 5y ago
They just feel great to type on. It's probably a combination of key travel, getting the scissor mechanism right, perfect force needed and the feel of the depressing and popping back up of the keys. The current gen is oookay to type on after you get used to it, but when I go back to my X220, the difference is that the X220 is a _joy_ to type on, rather than just okay. They also seem to last pretty well, given how old that X220 is now. The 7 rows were nice because you had a few extra "media" keys without needing to Fn-combine (assuming you've set Fn to be off by default so you can use the function keys for your software).
formerly_proven 5y ago
I'd say it's more about the "more buttons less fn" aspect, because I don't think Thinkpad keyboards are particularly great (though definitely some of the best stuff you can have in a laptop). I don't use touchpads unless I have to so I don't care about its size.
luke2m 5y ago
All 4, but mostly the layout and shape. There is space on the keyboard deck, yet all sorts of buttons are hidden under fn, and for people who use pgup/dn / home/end, it is a big change. Also, I think the thinklight is vastly superior to the backlit keyboard for illuminating the whole area around it.

eliasmacpherson 5y ago

> Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? Yes to all four. The chicklet keys remind my muscle memory that the layout has changed from what I am used to so 'touch typing' for anything that involves pgup/pgdn/home/end/insert/delete is now a chore to look and see where they have moved things. The most egregious crime I have seen on some models is there is no LED for fn or capslock anywhere, and is to be provided by the OS, such as the e550 and e330

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
flyinghamster 5y ago
The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.
alexvoda 5y ago
I agree that there have been several misssteps (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) but I think there is a lot to like about the current itereation as seen on the T14 (1). It was even officialy converted into a wireless keyboard (2). Things I like in no paticular order: - Shape of keys: mostly flat chicklet but slightly scooped, rectangular with one curved edge, island style - Fn keys are separated in groups of 4 - Spacebar is exactly 5U long and alligned to CVBNM (I find verry annoying when this is not the case) - Modifier keys are vertically aligned to shift row keys - Home, End, Insert, Delete placement is reasonable (especially Esc is above ~, Delete is above Backspace and Insert is next to Delete) though I usually find Fn+arrows more mentally comfortable for PgUp/PgDown/Home/End - Media keys is great with leftmost group being audio, followed by display and then others - It's backlit - LED indicators for Caps and Fn A layout I might find even better is the japanese version(3). I would actually prefer to have the spacebar only as wide as VBN and have 2 more modifier keys left and right. This version however has one key to much to the left of the spacebar. (1) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51e0Sd1FYDL._AC_SL1280_.... (2) https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/KBD-BO-TrackPoint-KBD-UK-English/p/4Y40X49520 https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/accessories-and-monitors/keyboa... (3) https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_.jpg https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/5158Zq01plL._AC_SL1145_....
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  Unfortunately they just remind me of bad memories. The aftermarket external keyboards are the solution for me. > (like Lenovo tring to replace the Fn-row with a touchbar) Normally I would thank somebody for bringing something like this to my attention, but I actually don't even want to know and will try and blot this sentence out from my memory now.
  - alexvoda 5y ago
    Than, to your horror, here is how it looks (1). Thankfully it was only used on the Gen 2 of the X1 Carbon. The thing is, the concept of the touchbar (especially as technically implemented by Apple with a matte texture) is actually great. The great mistake was having it replace the Fn-row. If it was placed above the Fn-row, the touchbar would have been great. (1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgkB6T6LrhQ

sdfjkl 5y ago

They just feel great to type on. It's probably a combination of key travel, getting the scissor mechanism right, perfect force needed and the feel of the depressing and popping back up of the keys. The current gen is oookay to type on after you get used to it, but when I go back to my X220, the difference is that the X220 is a _joy_ to type on, rather than just okay. They also seem to last pretty well, given how old that X220 is now. The 7 rows were nice because you had a few extra "media" keys without needing to Fn-combine (assuming you've set Fn to be off by default so you can use the function keys for your software).

formerly_proven 5y ago

I'd say it's more about the "more buttons less fn" aspect, because I don't think Thinkpad keyboards are particularly great (though definitely some of the best stuff you can have in a laptop). I don't use touchpads unless I have to so I don't care about its size.

luke2m 5y ago

All 4, but mostly the layout and shape. There is space on the keyboard deck, yet all sorts of buttons are hidden under fn, and for people who use pgup/dn / home/end, it is a big change. Also, I think the thinklight is vastly superior to the backlit keyboard for illuminating the whole area around it.