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It's insane how quickly things are moving now. The last year has felt like a decade. So many building blocks are in place now that I don't think we'll see anoth

It's insane how quickly things are moving now. The last year has felt like a decade. So many building blocks are in place now that I don't think we'll see another "crypto winter" quite like the last one.

brazzy 5y ago
It seems quite certain that we'll se a "crypto apocalypse" instead, given how many of those "building blocks" consist of outright fraud and market manipulation.
- knownjorbist 5y ago
  Do you have any examples of this besides Tether?
  - beebmam 5y ago
    Nano/Raiblocks
    - capableweb 5y ago
      Nano doesn't even show up in the top 100 list of cryptocurrencies, I don't think it can cause any sort of impact even if it disappeared overnight. Remember that Bitcoin still has ~45% of market, Ethereum around 20%, and the rest of them share what's left over. For a "crypto apocalypse" to happen, something needs to happen with the majority of top 100 cryptocurrencies.
      - beebmam 5y ago
        That's because the largest exchange for it in the world stole hundreds of million of dollars from people and the value of it totally collapsed.
        capableweb 5y ago
        Haven't heard about that. Yet, the entire market is moving upwards, doesn't that prove the opposite? That the market can afford loosing smaller coins without impacting the larger market? When did this "steal" you mention happened anyway? Seems the price of nano been stable since this year, hovering around $4, unless you go all the way back to 2017.
        beebmam 5y ago
        It's not hard to find; check Wikipedia for the coin
        capableweb 5y ago
        Since you're too lazy to actually contribute to the discussion, here is the part (I think) you're talking about: > On 9 February 2018, the Italian cryptocurrency exchange BitGrail announced its shutdown after being hacked. Where is the reference pointing to that the they stole it? The exchange had poor security, which is what they got sued for. The 2nd of January, the price of Nano was ~$33, by the 9th of February, the price had already dropped to ~$10. After that, the lowest price it went to was about ~$1. The price of Nano started to increase again and is now ~$6. I again fail to see how Nano is an example of being a "building block" (what is even built on Nano that is relatively popular?), how it is "outright fraud" or how this "collapse of Nano" (which again, seems to never have happened in the first place) caused a "crypto apocalypse".
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/12/21/bitgrail-operator-may-have-hacked-own-exchange-to-steal-120m-police-allege/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/12/21/bitgrail-operato...
        capableweb 5y ago
        Why do you people keep arguing against yourself? That very article says: > “It is not yet clear whether he participated actively in the theft or if he simply decided not to increase security measures after discovering it,” Ivano Gabrielli, director of the national centre for cyber crimes, said in Reuters' report. How does that prove anything? What's happening with HN users making baseless accusations? What happened with providing hard evidence to what you're stating?
    - Kiro 5y ago
      How so?
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      I've never heard of either of these and I'm not sure how they would qualify.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    Not GP, but plenty of unmemorable (but for their quantity and nature) ICOs a few years ago, before the SEC decided to subject them to the Howey test and consequently regulate many of them (and probably deter many more from bothering to work out if they passed the test/risk it).
    - capableweb 5y ago
      Wouldn't this lead to less "outright fraud and market manipulation" as those actors would have left "a few years ago"? Also, how would those tokens even affect anything today? The argument was that there will be a "crypto apocalypse" because there is so much "outright fraud and market manipulation" today, not "a few years ago". Seemingly no one can point to a top 100 cryptocurrency that actually shows "outright fraud and market manipulation" so the argument feels a bit out of place for HN that usually tends to be accurate and precise.
    - knownjorbist 5y ago
      I'm aware of various rugpull scams with both fungible and non-fungible crypto assets. I as more asking for examples of major "cornerstones" of crypto that could have create big waves across the market if something happened to it. Tether is the only example I'm aware of in which there is a case to be made that the creators are not actually collateralizing USDT with actual USD(and so if there was a run on Tether for some reason it'd potentially have rippled effects elsewhere).
      - OJFord 5y ago
        Oh I see, yes ok re-reading 'building blocks' you replied to and your 'besides Tether', fair enough. I don't know either. I don't follow crypto a lot, but what would the other candidates even be - BTC (because it's like the USD of crypto), ETH (because of derived coins, and everything built on top of its contracts), and ...?
dageshi 5y ago
It's the nature of the internet as an environment, things iterate exponentially faster than in the real world.

brazzy 5y ago

It seems quite certain that we'll se a "crypto apocalypse" instead, given how many of those "building blocks" consist of outright fraud and market manipulation.

knownjorbist 5y ago
Do you have any examples of this besides Tether?
- beebmam 5y ago
  Nano/Raiblocks
  - capableweb 5y ago
    Nano doesn't even show up in the top 100 list of cryptocurrencies, I don't think it can cause any sort of impact even if it disappeared overnight. Remember that Bitcoin still has ~45% of market, Ethereum around 20%, and the rest of them share what's left over. For a "crypto apocalypse" to happen, something needs to happen with the majority of top 100 cryptocurrencies.
    - beebmam 5y ago
      That's because the largest exchange for it in the world stole hundreds of million of dollars from people and the value of it totally collapsed.
      - capableweb 5y ago
        Haven't heard about that. Yet, the entire market is moving upwards, doesn't that prove the opposite? That the market can afford loosing smaller coins without impacting the larger market? When did this "steal" you mention happened anyway? Seems the price of nano been stable since this year, hovering around $4, unless you go all the way back to 2017.
        beebmam 5y ago
        It's not hard to find; check Wikipedia for the coin
        capableweb 5y ago
        Since you're too lazy to actually contribute to the discussion, here is the part (I think) you're talking about: > On 9 February 2018, the Italian cryptocurrency exchange BitGrail announced its shutdown after being hacked. Where is the reference pointing to that the they stole it? The exchange had poor security, which is what they got sued for. The 2nd of January, the price of Nano was ~$33, by the 9th of February, the price had already dropped to ~$10. After that, the lowest price it went to was about ~$1. The price of Nano started to increase again and is now ~$6. I again fail to see how Nano is an example of being a "building block" (what is even built on Nano that is relatively popular?), how it is "outright fraud" or how this "collapse of Nano" (which again, seems to never have happened in the first place) caused a "crypto apocalypse".
        EdwardDiego 5y ago
        https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/12/21/bitgrail-operator-may-have-hacked-own-exchange-to-steal-120m-police-allege/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2020/12/21/bitgrail-operato...
        capableweb 5y ago
        Why do you people keep arguing against yourself? That very article says: > “It is not yet clear whether he participated actively in the theft or if he simply decided not to increase security measures after discovering it,” Ivano Gabrielli, director of the national centre for cyber crimes, said in Reuters' report. How does that prove anything? What's happening with HN users making baseless accusations? What happened with providing hard evidence to what you're stating?
  - Kiro 5y ago
    How so?
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    I've never heard of either of these and I'm not sure how they would qualify.
- OJFord 5y ago
  Not GP, but plenty of unmemorable (but for their quantity and nature) ICOs a few years ago, before the SEC decided to subject them to the Howey test and consequently regulate many of them (and probably deter many more from bothering to work out if they passed the test/risk it).
  - capableweb 5y ago
    Wouldn't this lead to less "outright fraud and market manipulation" as those actors would have left "a few years ago"? Also, how would those tokens even affect anything today? The argument was that there will be a "crypto apocalypse" because there is so much "outright fraud and market manipulation" today, not "a few years ago". Seemingly no one can point to a top 100 cryptocurrency that actually shows "outright fraud and market manipulation" so the argument feels a bit out of place for HN that usually tends to be accurate and precise.
  - knownjorbist 5y ago
    I'm aware of various rugpull scams with both fungible and non-fungible crypto assets. I as more asking for examples of major "cornerstones" of crypto that could have create big waves across the market if something happened to it. Tether is the only example I'm aware of in which there is a case to be made that the creators are not actually collateralizing USDT with actual USD(and so if there was a run on Tether for some reason it'd potentially have rippled effects elsewhere).
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Oh I see, yes ok re-reading 'building blocks' you replied to and your 'besides Tether', fair enough. I don't know either. I don't follow crypto a lot, but what would the other candidates even be - BTC (because it's like the USD of crypto), ETH (because of derived coins, and everything built on top of its contracts), and ...?

dageshi 5y ago

It's the nature of the internet as an environment, things iterate exponentially faster than in the real world.