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In South Korea, major study found mandatory wearing of masks reduced COVID-19 rates by 93.5% and practicing both social distancing with masks on public transpor

In South Korea, major study found mandatory wearing of masks reduced COVID-19 rates by 93.5% and practicing both social distancing with masks on public transport during peak hours reduced infection rates by 98.1%. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abg3691?utm_campaign=SciMag&utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Twitter https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abg3691?utm_campa...

thenewnormal 5y ago
It's all modelling. They also have to also say: > The limited number and type of experiments in this study means that there is uncertainty associated with our extrapolated findings. All results also use masks that are designed and rated for particular filtration properties, and are fitted with no leakage. I see basically none of the above in my day to day life. I'll say it again - there is incredibly limited evidence that the masks we all wear every day, with amount to random bits of cloth with gaping holes around the face (and are typically applied, removed, and re-used in a remarkably causal fashion for something that's supposed to contain biohazardous waste), do anyone any good.
- threeseed 5y ago
  a) There are cited references within the paper that are based on real-world analysis. The onus is on you to refute the paper on its merits as well as those cited instead of dismissing anything based on modelling. b) Don't move the goalposts. You said that masks provide no net public health benefit. They clearly do. Some masks are obviously more effective than others but that doesn't change the fact that they are effective.
ipaddr 5y ago
The modeling is based on masks no one is using. If your mask doesn't cost at least $300 dollars it will not have the same effect.
- threeseed 5y ago
  In Australia at least you do see N95 masks being used. And K80/K94 ones are very popular especially amongst Asian communities. But the type of mask is irrelevant to the discussion. It's about whether they are effective in preventing transmission. And on that point the answer is unequivocally yes.
  - thenewnormal 5y ago
    >the type of mask is irrelevant to the discussion It absolutely is relevant. Rated masks (N95, etc) are designed and tested to achieve a particular level of particle filtration. If you want to avoid viral particles, find one that meets the specification you need and wear it.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  KF94 masks are the rough equivalent of N95s, which are relatively cheap and plentiful. When I go out I now use a CAN99 mask.
  - ipaddr 5y ago
    There was a great w5 episode that tested the two and others. If you don't move look straight ahead they are about the same if you bend your head down or move forward the air gets in. There is a reason why they are plentiful and much cheaper.
azinman2 5y ago
This one was getting a lot of media attention: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/09/masks-randomized-study-bangladesh-covid/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/09/masks-rand... A list of 49 studies that back it: https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/ https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-her...
- strogonoff 5y ago
  Proper mask wearing and replacement, understanding how masks work—all the things I observe in every study concerning masks as prevention for COVID and yet almost never in real life. (FWIW I wear a mask, except when I only have a used cheap surgical one and almost nobody around is wearing a mask correctly. I’m not doing society any good by getting sick from breathing in whatever badness has stuck in the mask during use, and I can't save the situation by being the one person properly wearing a mask.)
  - azinman2 5y ago
    Many mask studies are based upon the real world in the field, such as the Bangladesh one, as well as the Korean subway study elsewhere linked to. So it's simply not true that all of these are somehow in lab only. I have no idea what mask behavior is like where you are, but it's known that masks are asymmetric -- they prevent transmission better than they prevent catching COVID (unless N95). But that doesn't mean you wearing one is 0% effective.. it's still a diminished amount. It also gives an example for behavior for others for them to emulate. Certain regions (like SF for the most part) have very good adherence on average. You also do the most important duty -- significantly reduce transmission from you to others! What better thing could you do to 'save the situation' than prevent covid? If you're concerned that your mask previously had covid on it, then you should use a different mask next time and either throw the previous one away, wait for the virus to die, or otherwise disinfect it depending on the mask type.
    - strogonoff 5y ago
      Rest assured, I believe if 90%+ of people consistently wore masks properly when among other people we’d have no problem getting rid of COVID. However, it’s unrealistic. People will skip masks at home (even though they risk getting infected by asymptomatic members of the family), people won’t wear masks properly, etc. > Many mask studies are based upon the real world in the field, such as the Bangladesh one In Bangladesh study: > For roughly half the 600 villages, we intervened by promoting mask usage: We gave every family in each village at least three masks — one per adult, cloth or surgical — and distributed masks in public spaces, including markets. We enlisted eminent local figures to explain why wearing masks can help slow viral transmission — providing imams with scripts to be read during religious services, for instance. Local leaders also modeled proper mask-wearing. We then sent observers into public spaces to note any changes in behavior. > We cross-randomized mask type (cloth vs. surgical) and promotion strategies at the village and household level. Proper mask-wearing increased from 13.3% in the control group to 42.3% in the intervention arm (adjusted percentage point difference = 0.29 [0.26, 0.31]). > After piloting, we settled on a core intervention package that combined household mask distribution with communication about the value of mask-wearing, mask promotion and in-person reminders at mosques, markets, and other public places, and role-modeling by public officials and community leaders. We also tested several other strategies in sub-samples, such as asking people to make a verbal commitment, creating opportunities for social signaling, text messages, and providing village-level incentives to increase mask-wearing. <…> We tested many different strategies because it was difficult to predict in advance which ones would lead to persistent increases in mask-wearing. What was tested was not just mask-wearing, what was tested is a complex, holistic approach to educating residents that resulted in proper mask-wearing among large percentage of even symptomless people. > as well as the Korean subway study elsewhere linked to. So it's simply not true that all of these are somehow in lab only. Mask-wearing culture in Korea, Japan, Hong Kong is different. Attention is paid to proper mask wearing, for example, and most people wear masks.

thenewnormal 5y ago

It's all modelling. They also have to also say: > The limited number and type of experiments in this study means that there is uncertainty associated with our extrapolated findings. All results also use masks that are designed and rated for particular filtration properties, and are fitted with no leakage. I see basically none of the above in my day to day life. I'll say it again - there is incredibly limited evidence that the masks we all wear every day, with amount to random bits of cloth with gaping holes around the face (and are typically applied, removed, and re-used in a remarkably causal fashion for something that's supposed to contain biohazardous waste), do anyone any good.

threeseed 5y ago
a) There are cited references within the paper that are based on real-world analysis. The onus is on you to refute the paper on its merits as well as those cited instead of dismissing anything based on modelling. b) Don't move the goalposts. You said that masks provide no net public health benefit. They clearly do. Some masks are obviously more effective than others but that doesn't change the fact that they are effective.

ipaddr 5y ago

The modeling is based on masks no one is using. If your mask doesn't cost at least $300 dollars it will not have the same effect.

threeseed 5y ago
In Australia at least you do see N95 masks being used. And K80/K94 ones are very popular especially amongst Asian communities. But the type of mask is irrelevant to the discussion. It's about whether they are effective in preventing transmission. And on that point the answer is unequivocally yes.
- thenewnormal 5y ago
  >the type of mask is irrelevant to the discussion It absolutely is relevant. Rated masks (N95, etc) are designed and tested to achieve a particular level of particle filtration. If you want to avoid viral particles, find one that meets the specification you need and wear it.
SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
KF94 masks are the rough equivalent of N95s, which are relatively cheap and plentiful. When I go out I now use a CAN99 mask.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  There was a great w5 episode that tested the two and others. If you don't move look straight ahead they are about the same if you bend your head down or move forward the air gets in. There is a reason why they are plentiful and much cheaper.

azinman2 5y ago

This one was getting a lot of media attention: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/09/masks-randomized-study-bangladesh-covid/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/09/masks-rand... A list of 49 studies that back it: https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-here-are-49-scientific-studies-that-explain-why-they-do/ https://www.kxan.com/news/coronavirus/do-face-masks-work-her...

strogonoff 5y ago
Proper mask wearing and replacement, understanding how masks work—all the things I observe in every study concerning masks as prevention for COVID and yet almost never in real life. (FWIW I wear a mask, except when I only have a used cheap surgical one and almost nobody around is wearing a mask correctly. I’m not doing society any good by getting sick from breathing in whatever badness has stuck in the mask during use, and I can't save the situation by being the one person properly wearing a mask.)
- azinman2 5y ago
  Many mask studies are based upon the real world in the field, such as the Bangladesh one, as well as the Korean subway study elsewhere linked to. So it's simply not true that all of these are somehow in lab only. I have no idea what mask behavior is like where you are, but it's known that masks are asymmetric -- they prevent transmission better than they prevent catching COVID (unless N95). But that doesn't mean you wearing one is 0% effective.. it's still a diminished amount. It also gives an example for behavior for others for them to emulate. Certain regions (like SF for the most part) have very good adherence on average. You also do the most important duty -- significantly reduce transmission from you to others! What better thing could you do to 'save the situation' than prevent covid? If you're concerned that your mask previously had covid on it, then you should use a different mask next time and either throw the previous one away, wait for the virus to die, or otherwise disinfect it depending on the mask type.
  - strogonoff 5y ago
    Rest assured, I believe if 90%+ of people consistently wore masks properly when among other people we’d have no problem getting rid of COVID. However, it’s unrealistic. People will skip masks at home (even though they risk getting infected by asymptomatic members of the family), people won’t wear masks properly, etc. > Many mask studies are based upon the real world in the field, such as the Bangladesh one In Bangladesh study: > For roughly half the 600 villages, we intervened by promoting mask usage: We gave every family in each village at least three masks — one per adult, cloth or surgical — and distributed masks in public spaces, including markets. We enlisted eminent local figures to explain why wearing masks can help slow viral transmission — providing imams with scripts to be read during religious services, for instance. Local leaders also modeled proper mask-wearing. We then sent observers into public spaces to note any changes in behavior. > We cross-randomized mask type (cloth vs. surgical) and promotion strategies at the village and household level. Proper mask-wearing increased from 13.3% in the control group to 42.3% in the intervention arm (adjusted percentage point difference = 0.29 [0.26, 0.31]). > After piloting, we settled on a core intervention package that combined household mask distribution with communication about the value of mask-wearing, mask promotion and in-person reminders at mosques, markets, and other public places, and role-modeling by public officials and community leaders. We also tested several other strategies in sub-samples, such as asking people to make a verbal commitment, creating opportunities for social signaling, text messages, and providing village-level incentives to increase mask-wearing. <…> We tested many different strategies because it was difficult to predict in advance which ones would lead to persistent increases in mask-wearing. What was tested was not just mask-wearing, what was tested is a complex, holistic approach to educating residents that resulted in proper mask-wearing among large percentage of even symptomless people. > as well as the Korean subway study elsewhere linked to. So it's simply not true that all of these are somehow in lab only. Mask-wearing culture in Korea, Japan, Hong Kong is different. Attention is paid to proper mask wearing, for example, and most people wear masks.