7 ms·

We need legislation immediately which requires that all new batteries are designed and made to be disassembled for recycling both easily and cheaply. Do it now,

We need legislation immediately which requires that all new batteries are designed and made to be disassembled for recycling both easily and cheaply. Do it now, while the industry is ramping up so the costs can be built into the system. Also, every battery that is produced should have a serial number on it. These are not things that can just be dumped in a hole and forgotten. The manufacturer of that battery should be responsible for it from the day it's made to the day it's recycled. Side note: You know those Tide Pod plastic buckets? Those are recyclable. The refill bags of pods, however, are made of a plastic that is not recyclable - so you buy the bag to create less waste and actually end up creating more. This is the sort of stupidity that shouldn't be legally allowed in the future.

rightbyte 5y ago
The automaker should be responsible for recycling their batteries to allign incentives. Imagine trying to dissassemble a 20 yo EV battery with rust and salt bridges everywhere and not die in the process.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  At least in the EU, car manufacturers have to take back old cars at no costs already.
landemva 5y ago
USA exports used solar panels for disposal in trash dumps 'over there'. The entire lifecycle of electric usage is important and easily overlooked. Be precise with legislation. For example, some States forbid landfill of whole tires. This led to collection of per-tire disposal fee and the landfills purchasing new wheel loader to scoop whole tires into new shredder which uses new conveyor to pile up the tire shreds. Wheel loader then scoops shreds and sprinkles the shreds into landfill.
- catlikesshrimp 5y ago
  Is that a loophole in the law? You can't dispose of tires but if you shred them, they are no longer tires, and you can now dispose of them?
  - porlw 5y ago
    Tyres are breeding grounds for mosquitos, shredding them stops this so this law is having the intended effect. https://blog.epa.gov/2015/08/26/improperly-stored-tires-lead-to-big-mosquito-problems/ https://blog.epa.gov/2015/08/26/improperly-stored-tires-lead...
  - samus 5y ago
    At least they consume way less space that way.
beering 5y ago
> Side note: You know those Tide Pod plastic buckets? Those are recyclable. The refill bags of pods, however, are made of a plastic that is not recyclable - so you buy the bag to create less waste and actually end up creating more. Are those buckets recyclable as in "stamped with the recycling symbol" or "actually will get recycled if you drop it in the recycling bin"? I've heard that most plastics, recyclable or not, are not recycled in practice due to cost, contamination, or lack of demand. (If that's true, then the bag is better than the bucket because it's less plastic.)
- russellbeattie 5y ago
  I actually just looked it up, and it's even more complicated, of course... From their website: • The tub is recyclable. Please ensure that your area's recycling programs support the recycling of this type of container. • The lid component is recyclable only in the few communities that have recycling programs for this type of material. • The bag is not recyclable. https://pgconsumersupport.secure.force.com/CarehubStandalone/articles/en_US/FAQ/Is-Tide-packaging-recyclable?brand=Tide&country=us&language=en#brandListDiv https://pgconsumersupport.secure.force.com/CarehubStandalone...
  - smileysteve 5y ago
    The tub is very realistically user reusable, at least once. Both the tub and the bag have less carbon footprint than a cotton bag, glass container, or metal tin. Likely less than transporting liquid detergent (though more than powder in cardboard)
    - russellbeattie 5y ago
      The tub has to be thoroughly cleaned, and even then you shouldn't store food in it because of the detergents possibly permeating the plastic. I read this in an article about repurposing the tubs as Jack-o'-lanterns for Halloween. Anyways, what's your point? They could use cardboard just as easily. And that still doesn't excuse plastics being used today that are non recyclable.
beloch 5y ago
Such a law would kill structural batteries [1] in their infancy. That may or may not be a good thing. -------- [1]https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakthrough-for-massless-energy-storage-structural-battery-that-performs-10x-better-than-all-previous-versions/ https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakthrough-for-massless-energ...
- themitigating 5y ago
  Couldn't they just cut it out like extracting part of a car frame? The goal is to get inside for the packs
  - andrawesbahou 5y ago
    No joke, cutting it out makes the batteries explode if they are not deeply discharged.
morsch 5y ago
Ideal is detergent powder in recycled paper packaging. Or would be, I don't think you can buy it that way.
- dEnigma 5y ago
  You can definitely buy powder in paper/cardboard packaging, at least here in Austria. But I just checked my box, and it's unfortunately not made from recycled fibers. At least recycling this won't be a problem.
- BrandoElFollito 5y ago
  A French company (https://900.care https://900.care) does that. No affiliation, but I want to try them out after they popped up in my youtube ads following searches on exactly these kind of products. I do not know if they are good but zt least they tick the sustainability part I was looking for.
- ydant 5y ago
  When I was growing up, (all?) laundry detergent /was/ powder in a cardboard box. I recently remembered that as we tried to move to powdered detergent again - and found it really difficult to find locally, and at a reasonable price per load. There are some online retailers (like "Meliora") which offer it (but then you're adding the small-scale shipping into the environmental equation), so we've just been buying it in bulk that way. And it works perfectly well. They ship their refills in a small brown paper bag - not sure if it's recycled, but the overall impact has to be minimal compared to plastic tubs. Same with dishwasher detergent. It /used/ to be powder. There's still powder now easy to find, at least, and it works perfectly fine.
- jcampbell1 5y ago
  Those pods are the dumbest invention that consumers have fallen for. Pouring powder from the box works much better for cleaning because you want some washing soda in the pre-wash as well as the main wash. Pour some in the compartment that closes and some on the door, or the little compartment that automatically leaks onto the door. Dishwashing pods are a total scam and they clean dishes less well than pouring powder for 8x the cost and a worse environmental impact.
_ph_ 5y ago
At least for the purpose of recycling, where it is ok to destroy any part of the housing, batteries are very recycling friendly, as they are made of modular cells.
andrawesbahou 5y ago
It's going to be hard to push regulation to specifically make it easier to dissassemble them. However, regulation that makes the manufacturer responsible throughout the life of the battery (and beyond the vehicle's warranty period) should be possible, and would force the manufacturer into designing-for-recycling. Disclaimer: I'm affiliated, as a founder, with a company building robots to disassemble car batteries semi-automatically.
- jaclaz 5y ago
  Even if this (hopefully) happens, and it happens fast, it might become similar (in EU) to what is now the Law regarding solar panels, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13250584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13250584

rightbyte 5y ago

The automaker should be responsible for recycling their batteries to allign incentives. Imagine trying to dissassemble a 20 yo EV battery with rust and salt bridges everywhere and not die in the process.

_ph_ 5y ago
At least in the EU, car manufacturers have to take back old cars at no costs already.

landemva 5y ago

USA exports used solar panels for disposal in trash dumps 'over there'. The entire lifecycle of electric usage is important and easily overlooked. Be precise with legislation. For example, some States forbid landfill of whole tires. This led to collection of per-tire disposal fee and the landfills purchasing new wheel loader to scoop whole tires into new shredder which uses new conveyor to pile up the tire shreds. Wheel loader then scoops shreds and sprinkles the shreds into landfill.

catlikesshrimp 5y ago
Is that a loophole in the law? You can't dispose of tires but if you shred them, they are no longer tires, and you can now dispose of them?
- porlw 5y ago
  Tyres are breeding grounds for mosquitos, shredding them stops this so this law is having the intended effect. https://blog.epa.gov/2015/08/26/improperly-stored-tires-lead-to-big-mosquito-problems/ https://blog.epa.gov/2015/08/26/improperly-stored-tires-lead...
- samus 5y ago
  At least they consume way less space that way.

beering 5y ago

> Side note: You know those Tide Pod plastic buckets? Those are recyclable. The refill bags of pods, however, are made of a plastic that is not recyclable - so you buy the bag to create less waste and actually end up creating more. Are those buckets recyclable as in "stamped with the recycling symbol" or "actually will get recycled if you drop it in the recycling bin"? I've heard that most plastics, recyclable or not, are not recycled in practice due to cost, contamination, or lack of demand. (If that's true, then the bag is better than the bucket because it's less plastic.)

russellbeattie 5y ago
I actually just looked it up, and it's even more complicated, of course... From their website: • The tub is recyclable. Please ensure that your area's recycling programs support the recycling of this type of container. • The lid component is recyclable only in the few communities that have recycling programs for this type of material. • The bag is not recyclable. https://pgconsumersupport.secure.force.com/CarehubStandalone/articles/en_US/FAQ/Is-Tide-packaging-recyclable?brand=Tide&country=us&language=en#brandListDiv https://pgconsumersupport.secure.force.com/CarehubStandalone...
- smileysteve 5y ago
  The tub is very realistically user reusable, at least once. Both the tub and the bag have less carbon footprint than a cotton bag, glass container, or metal tin. Likely less than transporting liquid detergent (though more than powder in cardboard)
  - russellbeattie 5y ago
    The tub has to be thoroughly cleaned, and even then you shouldn't store food in it because of the detergents possibly permeating the plastic. I read this in an article about repurposing the tubs as Jack-o'-lanterns for Halloween. Anyways, what's your point? They could use cardboard just as easily. And that still doesn't excuse plastics being used today that are non recyclable.

beloch 5y ago

Such a law would kill structural batteries [1] in their infancy. That may or may not be a good thing. -------- [1]https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakthrough-for-massless-energy-storage-structural-battery-that-performs-10x-better-than-all-previous-versions/ https://scitechdaily.com/big-breakthrough-for-massless-energ...

themitigating 5y ago
Couldn't they just cut it out like extracting part of a car frame? The goal is to get inside for the packs
- andrawesbahou 5y ago
  No joke, cutting it out makes the batteries explode if they are not deeply discharged.

morsch 5y ago

Ideal is detergent powder in recycled paper packaging. Or would be, I don't think you can buy it that way.

dEnigma 5y ago
You can definitely buy powder in paper/cardboard packaging, at least here in Austria. But I just checked my box, and it's unfortunately not made from recycled fibers. At least recycling this won't be a problem.
BrandoElFollito 5y ago
A French company (https://900.care https://900.care) does that. No affiliation, but I want to try them out after they popped up in my youtube ads following searches on exactly these kind of products. I do not know if they are good but zt least they tick the sustainability part I was looking for.
ydant 5y ago
When I was growing up, (all?) laundry detergent /was/ powder in a cardboard box. I recently remembered that as we tried to move to powdered detergent again - and found it really difficult to find locally, and at a reasonable price per load. There are some online retailers (like "Meliora") which offer it (but then you're adding the small-scale shipping into the environmental equation), so we've just been buying it in bulk that way. And it works perfectly well. They ship their refills in a small brown paper bag - not sure if it's recycled, but the overall impact has to be minimal compared to plastic tubs. Same with dishwasher detergent. It /used/ to be powder. There's still powder now easy to find, at least, and it works perfectly fine.
jcampbell1 5y ago
Those pods are the dumbest invention that consumers have fallen for. Pouring powder from the box works much better for cleaning because you want some washing soda in the pre-wash as well as the main wash. Pour some in the compartment that closes and some on the door, or the little compartment that automatically leaks onto the door. Dishwashing pods are a total scam and they clean dishes less well than pouring powder for 8x the cost and a worse environmental impact.

_ph_ 5y ago

At least for the purpose of recycling, where it is ok to destroy any part of the housing, batteries are very recycling friendly, as they are made of modular cells.

andrawesbahou 5y ago

It's going to be hard to push regulation to specifically make it easier to dissassemble them. However, regulation that makes the manufacturer responsible throughout the life of the battery (and beyond the vehicle's warranty period) should be possible, and would force the manufacturer into designing-for-recycling. Disclaimer: I'm affiliated, as a founder, with a company building robots to disassemble car batteries semi-automatically.

jaclaz 5y ago
Even if this (hopefully) happens, and it happens fast, it might become similar (in EU) to what is now the Law regarding solar panels, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13250584 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13250584