4 ms·

In the Gamers Nexus review, they were using a high end 360MM AIO cooler and the CPU Temp shot up to 74C almost immediately during a blender session. Definitely

by vondur 5y ago

In the Gamers Nexus review, they were using a high end 360MM AIO cooler and the CPU Temp shot up to 74C almost immediately during a blender session. Definitely a hot, power hungry CPU.

zeusk 5y ago
immediate temp fluctuation is more of a heat transfer problem, not overall thermal budget.
smolder 5y ago
It seems like all the focus has been on how these chips are at maximum load. I wonder how they perform under more typical light/mixed loads. AFAIK, the theoretical benefit of doing the big-little arrangement is improved power scaling with load. At partial load, powering a wimpy "e-core" at its ideal clock speed should be more efficient (instructions per kwh) & possibly have better latency characteristics than the usual approach of doing a drastic underclock & undervolt on big performance-oriented cores. Naturally I'm interested in seeing whether that theoretical advantage of the architecture has paid off. The maximum speed performance stats and wattage numbers give an incomplete picture. I want to see wattage and performance metrics across the spectrum of load levels, from <1% all the way up. If the 12900K delivers roughly 5950 level performance using 25% more power than the 5950, that looks pretty bad. But if the 12900K can deliver 25% of its max performance for only 10% of its max power envelope, and the 5950 needs 30% of its max power envelope to keep up with that load, that's a big deal, and the intel chip will actually be the cooler one more often than not. That dynamism is what reviewers need to focus on explaining & quantifying, IMO.
- LordDragonfang 5y ago
  The LTT review [1] compares full-load-render benchmark tests against more real-world gaming performance, and the temps drop from a sustained 90 degrees to 60 degrees, so you seem to be right, there. [1] https://youtu.be/-EogHCFd7w0?t=534 https://youtu.be/-EogHCFd7w0?t=534
snuxoll 5y ago
What's the die size of the ADL silicon? I know my 5800X will rocket up past 70C even on a custom loop with 30C water temps because the chiplets are so small and power dense that there's not enough surface area to transfer heat any quicker to the IHS.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> In the Gamers Nexus review, they were using a high end 360MM AIO cooler and the CPU Temp shot up to 74C almost immediately during a blender session. FWIW, my water cooled AMD Ryzen also shoots up to very high temperatures immediately when loaded. It can touch 80C like a lightswitch. Water coolers have a lot of thermal mass in the water and the metal radiator. The CPU can't instantly heat all of this up. What's actually happening is that the turbo boost is pushing the CPU as far as possible within the thermal limits on a short-term basis, then slowly lowering the boost frequency as the temperature saturates. Power consumption is very non-linear, so each additional MHz of boost is a significant amount of additional power. The boost algorithms are designed to spike high for short bursts at the onset of load because most desktop operations require short bursts of single-threaded performance.
- merb 5y ago
  > FWIW, my water cooled AMD Ryzen also shoots up to very high temperatures immediately when loaded. It can touch 80C like a lightswitch. you should probably looking at a nocturna dh15, no ryzen (on the market) will get to 80° when loaded, not even in long blender sessions) so you probably have a faulty water cooling or smth.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    Definitely not faulty cooling. I have a 3950X on an NH-D15 in the other PC and it does the same thing. Not an amateur when it comes to cooling. The Ryzen temperature spikes are a well-known phenomenon: https://www.google.com/search?q=ryzen+temperature+spikes https://www.google.com/search?q=ryzen+temperature+spikes
  - podiki 5y ago
    Newer Ryzens can get plenty hot, and by design, e.g. https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-views-ryzen-5000-cpu-temperatures-up-to-95c-as-typical-and-by-design/ https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-views-ryzen-5000-cpu-temperature... In my experience with a 5600X and water cooling (nothing crazy, just an off the shelf AIO) sustained full CPU load will be in the 70s, but I've seen it hit 80 or so briefly.
fomine3 5y ago
It must be hot because Intel set very high PL1/PL2 for 12900K. I'd like to see realistic performance comparison like PL1/PL1=150W.

by vondur 5y ago

In the Gamers Nexus review, they were using a high end 360MM AIO cooler and the CPU Temp shot up to 74C almost immediately during a blender session. Definitely a hot, power hungry CPU.

zeusk 5y ago

immediate temp fluctuation is more of a heat transfer problem, not overall thermal budget.

smolder 5y ago

It seems like all the focus has been on how these chips are at maximum load. I wonder how they perform under more typical light/mixed loads. AFAIK, the theoretical benefit of doing the big-little arrangement is improved power scaling with load. At partial load, powering a wimpy "e-core" at its ideal clock speed should be more efficient (instructions per kwh) & possibly have better latency characteristics than the usual approach of doing a drastic underclock & undervolt on big performance-oriented cores. Naturally I'm interested in seeing whether that theoretical advantage of the architecture has paid off. The maximum speed performance stats and wattage numbers give an incomplete picture. I want to see wattage and performance metrics across the spectrum of load levels, from <1% all the way up. If the 12900K delivers roughly 5950 level performance using 25% more power than the 5950, that looks pretty bad. But if the 12900K can deliver 25% of its max performance for only 10% of its max power envelope, and the 5950 needs 30% of its max power envelope to keep up with that load, that's a big deal, and the intel chip will actually be the cooler one more often than not. That dynamism is what reviewers need to focus on explaining & quantifying, IMO.

LordDragonfang 5y ago
The LTT review [1] compares full-load-render benchmark tests against more real-world gaming performance, and the temps drop from a sustained 90 degrees to 60 degrees, so you seem to be right, there. [1] https://youtu.be/-EogHCFd7w0?t=534 https://youtu.be/-EogHCFd7w0?t=534

snuxoll 5y ago

What's the die size of the ADL silicon? I know my 5800X will rocket up past 70C even on a custom loop with 30C water temps because the chiplets are so small and power dense that there's not enough surface area to transfer heat any quicker to the IHS.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> In the Gamers Nexus review, they were using a high end 360MM AIO cooler and the CPU Temp shot up to 74C almost immediately during a blender session. FWIW, my water cooled AMD Ryzen also shoots up to very high temperatures immediately when loaded. It can touch 80C like a lightswitch. Water coolers have a lot of thermal mass in the water and the metal radiator. The CPU can't instantly heat all of this up. What's actually happening is that the turbo boost is pushing the CPU as far as possible within the thermal limits on a short-term basis, then slowly lowering the boost frequency as the temperature saturates. Power consumption is very non-linear, so each additional MHz of boost is a significant amount of additional power. The boost algorithms are designed to spike high for short bursts at the onset of load because most desktop operations require short bursts of single-threaded performance.

merb 5y ago
> FWIW, my water cooled AMD Ryzen also shoots up to very high temperatures immediately when loaded. It can touch 80C like a lightswitch. you should probably looking at a nocturna dh15, no ryzen (on the market) will get to 80° when loaded, not even in long blender sessions) so you probably have a faulty water cooling or smth.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  Definitely not faulty cooling. I have a 3950X on an NH-D15 in the other PC and it does the same thing. Not an amateur when it comes to cooling. The Ryzen temperature spikes are a well-known phenomenon: https://www.google.com/search?q=ryzen+temperature+spikes https://www.google.com/search?q=ryzen+temperature+spikes
- podiki 5y ago
  Newer Ryzens can get plenty hot, and by design, e.g. https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-views-ryzen-5000-cpu-temperatures-up-to-95c-as-typical-and-by-design/ https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-views-ryzen-5000-cpu-temperature... In my experience with a 5600X and water cooling (nothing crazy, just an off the shelf AIO) sustained full CPU load will be in the 70s, but I've seen it hit 80 or so briefly.

fomine3 5y ago

It must be hot because Intel set very high PL1/PL2 for 12900K. I'd like to see realistic performance comparison like PL1/PL1=150W.