14 ms·

The “Ultimate” ThinkPad (2020)

154 points by LaSombra 5y ago

24t 5y ago
I got a long way upgrading an old X220 but recently purchased a 51nb X210 (modified X201 with a new mobo) and it's excellent. USB 3, heaps of RAM and a 3k x 2k display
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  Heraclitus, a Greek philosopher, is quoted as saying "change is the only constant in life." Cutting my teeth with computers from the 80s through to the 00s, it's bemusing to see people resorting to hotrodding ancient shells of computers that in times previous would have been replaced every two years. Maybe this slower rate of change is more sustainable, or maybe it is a temporary blip. At least the new Apple chips were good, but I'd rather wait for everybody else to catch up, however long it takes. I am increasingly uncomfortable with how slowly things are moving. I don't remember generations past complaining about decceleration, rather the opposite.
  - kuschku 5y ago
    It'd be awesome if new computers weren't missing so many desirable features. With a modded old thinkpad I can get 95Wh of battery, I can get another 75Wh in 10 seconds by swapping the external battery. I can get a 1440p 400nits matte display, even a version with HDR support or in 4K exists. I can get as much RAM as I desire, thunderbolt 3 support, USB ports, ethernet port, hdmi, smartcard reader, sd card reader, LTE support, charging via usb c and via the old style connector. I can use old docks and thunderbolt docks. All that's missing is upgrading the CPU and the thunderbolt port to more lanes. Which modern PC offers in 1.1kg-1.3kg 95Wh of battery, such a good display, such great reliability and connectivity, with 16 or 32GB of ddr4-3200mhz ram, 2TB NVMe storage, for less than 500€? Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer? If you could replace the motherboard with these chinese mods, and add the ThinkPad 25 keyboard (with minor mods it fits into the T470) you could turn a T470 into the ultimate ThinkPad.
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      Well thanks for that info about the keyboard, since you saying that, I've found this insane t25/t480 story: https://kitsunyan.github.io/blog/frankenpad-story.html https://kitsunyan.github.io/blog/frankenpad-story.html
    - Joeri 5y ago
      Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer? Excepting the price the m1 macbook air is a strong contender. It is roughly the width and depth of an x220 but half the height, 1.3 kg, P3 400 nits high dpi IPS display, insane battery life (to the point of not needing a spare), P series performance, trackpad so good I don’t miss a trackpoint. It is missing the great keyboard and the ports though, although in practice the only thing I really miss going to the mba from a thinkpad is usb-a.
      - kuschku 5y ago
        Even if you ignore the keyboard and the ports, the M1 has significantly worse battery. The M1 13" has 58Wh, the M1 14" has 70Wh. And while the M1 does use less power in idle, under load it's just as power hungry as all the other processors, so for serious usage the battery would become a bottleneck. The aforementioned thinkpad can get 95Wh, and you can swap batteries if you carry a spare. That's 170Wh of power in just 1.6kg. You can get a LOT of mileage out of that. Now imagine an updated T470 with a more power efficient processor, e.g. a recent ryzen or an M1. Such a hypothetical device would last you forever, even if your system is at full load.
        turtlebits 5y ago
        You can't compare battery capacities with the M1. Under load the M1 uses significantly less power than any current AMD or Intel CPU. I'm pretty sure the M1 would last longer than your T470 on both batteries (95Wh + 75Wh).
        kuschku 5y ago
        The M1 Max draws in Cinebench single thread 11W, in multi thread 34W. That's not much, but it's not the 2x-4x more efficient it'd need to compensate for the smaller battery. Only for idle, browsing, video en/decoding, etc will you see significant improvements. For developers, the M1 is close, but not perfect.
  - sennight 5y ago
    "There's a sucker born every minute." -- Somebody in the 1800s marketing Ye olde Apple® Pro Stand™. I expect the trend to continue, as individuals find it more and more difficult to keep up with the marketing induced conspicuous consumption cycles - they'll accidentally rationalize an already reasonable position: treating durable goods like consumables is stupid and should be scorned instead of aped.
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      It was not always conspicious consumption, but certainly yes consumer buying power has gone down and so has the price performance ratio, particularly over the last ten years. There were legitimate improvements between every generation of thinkpad I am aware of up to the Tm30 series, the Tm40 series was a a sidegrade and so was each that followed up until the arrival of the Ryzen chips. key: Xm30/Tm30 with m for model - m = 2/4/5
      - sennight 5y ago
        I was speaking about the broader electronics market. I don't really view anything post Lenovo sale to be a thinkpad - there is practically zero design continuity. I think the [T|W]520 was the last IBM design, the product of a left seat right seat transition, where Lenovo's contribution was restricted to basically slapping their badge on it. After that the consistent method of segmenting by travel/performance design consideration was replaced by an explosion of confusing product offerings that seem to be a lot of distinction without difference. Oh, and they immediately (no joke, the first order of business) got rid of the most iconic thing about the brand: the nice keyboard. It really makes you wonder why they even bother pretending.
jacknews 5y ago
I thought ivyrain provided a way to reflash the bios without having to directly reprogramming the flash chip?
kawsper 5y ago
My girlfriend runs her pet behavior business from a Thinkpad X230, it have taken a lot of drops so the next upgrade is to replace the shell, but I've kept it clean, tightened the screws a couple of times and replaced the keyboard when some keys fell off. It's a workhorse and it just keeps going, she really likes the form factor. In the beginning she didn't like the trackpoint, but now it's the only thing she uses.
- zibzab 5y ago
  pro tip: you can also have it as an external keyboard. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/4y40x49493 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb... I first thought it would feel cramped but it turns out its work out better than full size keyboard if you are switching back and forth between laptop and desktop.
  - dfox 5y ago
    The Lenovo generation of external UltraNav keyboard has one huge desing issue: the cable is conneted by USB micro B and thus it is not question of if, but when it will break. I thought about just soldering the cable directly into it, but there dose not seem to be a way to non-destructively disassemble the keyboard.
    - zibzab 5y ago
      There is a Bluetooth version too.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    There's a whole cottage industry springing up around these. https://popey.com/blog/2020/12/keyboards-old-and-new/ https://popey.com/blog/2020/12/keyboards-old-and-new/ In future I might pair one with a thinkcentre nano, e-ink or touchscreen and a big lithium battery.
  - flyinghamster 5y ago
    Unicomp also offered a Model M-style keyboard with a trackpoint, but it's unavailable right now due to part shortages. I kind of regret not getting one the last time I shopped for a keyboard, but if they show up again, I'll probably pull the trigger. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro
zibzab 5y ago
You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big companies update their fleet. There is a huge modding community, but you don't really need to go that route if all you want is a reliable laptop. Although you might need to change the battery and fan, they're after all 8-10 year old by now.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  > You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big companies update their fleet. At least for me, this is half the appeal of thinkpads. They cost so little for their performance, I have a mate that even got a couple for free. Most of mine I didn't even need to change anything. The fans still work nicely (sometimes given them a clean of course) and no real battery problems to speak of. Probably a good idea to anyway, but yeh, they're solid laptops even after all these years
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  The standard display in these devices is terrible though. You should assume you will want to swap it out for something better.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    Simple rule of thumb, you always want the IPS display option.
    - amlib 5y ago
      I got lucky on mine and got an IPS panel... The seller never specified anything about the screen but from the photos I still had a hunch it could be an IPS panel. For a good while after I purchased it I would look all smug at my friends brand new notebooks that still had crappy TN panels over my old (but decked out!) x220
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  Micro Center often has off-lease ThinkPads at very attractive prices. They may have scuffs and scratches, but they've always been solid performers. The TrackPoint seals the deal for me. I do have a recent Dell Inspiron, but I find I'm mostly using it like a desktop, with an external keyboard and trackball, and a second monitor or TV set plugged in. I just can't stand trackpads.
_nickwhite 5y ago
This is a cool “tinkering” project, but my “ultimate” ThinkPad would rarely see the BIOS boot screen, and sleep/suspend/wake would actually work properly.
pelasaco 5y ago
Love my Thinkpad X220. I changed already keyboard, screen, some parts of its case.. It runs on SSD and it has 16GB RAM. I love it. The only issue is with CPU. Mine still running on a i5 and I would love to update it, to at least an i7.. is that possible?
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  The chip is soldered in, and the heat dissipation from the i7 2640m in the x220 model is woeful, 30-40 degrees at idle and then 90-96 under load typically. The fan will sit at 4500-5000rpm to get the temperature back below 50 degrees, depending on your thinkfan profiles in linux. A docking station makes matters worse. I cannot wait to replace mine.
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    but what would be the alternative? There is any CPU update that would be possible for us?
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      I don't think there is enough demand for anybody to make a replacement motherboard for the shell, maybe some person will undertake a solo project to do it for a lot of money. Apparently you can fit an x230 board in there but the x230 does not accept x220 batteries and so you have to flash the EC too. I'm not massively impressed with the performance of the x230 i7 and the heat dissipation will remain a big problem, so I don't consider this swap worth the effort. https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3fzm0c/x230_motherboard_in_x220_chassis/ https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3fzm0c/x230_mothe... https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Embedded_Controller_Firmware https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Embedded_Controller_Firmware There are more options if you want to get into soldering CPUs https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=121844 https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=121844
  - flyinghamster 5y ago
    I have a couple of used X201 Tablets with i7s that I picked up a few years ago to use as beaters, and I'll heartily agree that an i7 in a laptop is ill-suited for any kind of extended load[0]. If I set the BIOS to the "normal" setting, the 2.13 GHz i7 L 640 throttles down to 1.2 GHz. There's also a "performance" setting; I don't recall what it throttled to when using it, but I do recall that it would let the CPU get up to 99°C, one degree shy of shutdown. They stay in the low 80s [edit: under load] in normal mode. If you only need short bursts of high performance, the i7 is fine. [0] YMMV, particularly with newer processors
DoingIsLearning 5y ago
I don't want to start a religious keyboard war but does anybody know the actual rationale for the Ctrl Fn swap in ThinkPads? I agree that it is more ergonomic, but I am just curious if that is the actual reason for the swap? Or if there is some older legacy aspect or story behind it in the ThinkPads?
- sc11 5y ago
  They originally put it there because it's easier to locate apparently: > The Fn key was originally placed by the ThinkPad designers in the lower left hand corner to make the key easier to locate when using the keystroke combinations. There was a rationale. This is especially handy for turning on the ThinkLight in the dark. Aim for the two extreme corners. https://web.archive.org/web/20111115202457/http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/2009/07/fn-versus-ctrl-let-the-games-begin/ https://web.archive.org/web/20111115202457/http://www.lenovo...
- zeveb 5y ago
  The best place for the control key is determined by two things: finger strength and relative frequency of use. The control key is typically used far more often than alt/meta, super or (for those lucky enough to have one) hyper; as such, it should be positioned so that it may be struck with a strong finger: an index or middle finger would be great, or perhaps a thumb (as we learnt to do with Macs back in the 80s). As such, it seems remarkable that most keyboards place it far outboard, where all one can do is strike it with the weakest finger of all. Even the superior alternative of caps lock as control is not as good as alt as control. All of which is to say that the control key placement on the ThinkPads, while imperfect, is better than on most laptops.
  - avgcorrection 5y ago
    Bottom left and bottom right (the control keys on both sides are useful) are fine positions for a lot of non-laptop keyboards, namely those keyboards where you can comfortably use the palm of your hand to hit control (learnt that from Xah Lee). It is problematic for laptop keyboards, however.
  - 5y ago
alexvoda 5y ago
What are the aspects that are considered superior for the older 7-row keyboards compared to the newer 6-row keyboards? I have always seen a lot of praise for the older 7-row keyboards but it is not clear to me what makes them superior and too much time has passed since I used one to remember the feel. Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? They do indeed have a very iconic look. Personally I enjoy the clear and sharp separation of keys I can feel on so called chicklet keys. I never liked the keys with lean sloping edges. For the same reason I prefer XDA keycaps for mechanical kkeyboards. And I think the 6-row arrangement alows for a larger touchpad.
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  > Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? Yes to all four. The chicklet keys remind my muscle memory that the layout has changed from what I am used to so 'touch typing' for anything that involves pgup/pgdn/home/end/insert/delete is now a chore to look and see where they have moved things. The most egregious crime I have seen on some models is there is no LED for fn or capslock anywhere, and is to be provided by the OS, such as the e550 and e330
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - flyinghamster 5y ago
    The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.
  - alexvoda 5y ago
tristor 5y ago
I bought a modified X230 on eBay several years ago, then upgraded the RAM to the maximum it would support and installed a 1TB SSD. It’s been going strong for years only needing battery replacement and is my “car laptop” I use for running diagnostics, tuning, and in car data logging in my race cars. It’s taken a SERIOUS beating and still performs. I wish I could buy another more modern variant, but the original seller is no longer on eBay. Anyone have a link to reliable sellers of retromodded X series?
- nix23 5y ago
  https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/systems/?set_language=en https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/systems/?set_language=en or https://minifree.org/ https://minifree.org/
  - tristor 5y ago
    It appears that these are just base older Thinkpads with Libreboot. That's great, but not what I am referring to. There are people in China who are retromodding older Thinkpads with new screens, motherboards, and CPUs. The X230 I previously bought is basically the same thing as it left the factory originally, since it came with relatively decent hardware capabilities out of the box, but similar X220s are generally upgraded to at least a Haswell generation CPU / chipset. The big factor being that they are capable of supporting 16GB of RAM, which is a necessity for a modern laptop. An X200 can't have 16GB of RAM, and while 8GB usually works its not officially supported, the official maximum is 4GB. I'd like a newer retromodded X series because I have heard that some folks are bringing them up to new enough generations of hardware that they support nVME disks, which would be a significant performance advantage over a SATA SSD, and the power improvements would increase battery life in newer generation hardware as well. I'm fine if it's an X200 shell, but I don't want original X200 hardware.
NoGravitas 5y ago
I love the form-factor of my X230 (which is my most-used personal computer), and I do wish I could have the X220 keyboard and a 1080p display. But there is nothing that could convince me to undertake a project like this. (My offspring has an X240, and it's terrible. And I hear that newer ThinkPads even have soldered-in RAM and glued-in batteries. I don't know what I'll do when my X230 wears out. Maybe bite the bullet and buy a Framework.)
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  For me, the entire 40 series was a disaster, especially with the removal of all physical trackpad/trackpoint buttons. I've actually seen a security architect repeatedly slam the client-provided T540 onto a desk in rage. Lenovo apparently saw the error of their ways with the 50 series and they had dedicated buttons back ever since. X250 was my favourite of that form-factor, as it still had external and internal battery replaceable easily by user. I seem to recall even upgrading the RAM. They can be found for $250ish CAD if you wait/bargain a little. I too however could never commit to a project like that; just don't have the time/energy/priority. I believe it's the type of thing you undertake for the process, not results :). I ended up being one of those fools who paid for a T470-but-with-good-keyboard, the T25 Anniversary model, and 3 years later I'm still a very happy fool :).
  - andix 5y ago
    I replaced the trackpad in my t440s with a spare part from a t450s. No problem.
    - ryantgtg 5y ago
      I might be the only one that likes this t440s style trackpad. I have no desire to mod it. I love that you physically click it. Coming from a macbook, I was at first baffled that apparently you can’t rest your thumb on it while moving the cursor, but I quickly got used to that. And now I can’t stand macbook trackpads!
      - 5y ago
rvdginste 5y ago
A couple of months ago, I bought a used Thinkpad X200t in excellent condition. I knew about the popularity of the older Thinkpads and libreboot, and I was interested in a tablet pc because I wanted to use it to read and make notes, so when I came across that X200t (in excellent condition and good price) it was an easy decision to buy it. Its specs are low (256GB SSD, Core 2 duo, 4GB RAM, 1280x1024 screen), but I find it very usable for browsing, reading and annotating pdfs. It runs Debian stable with KDE Plasma (the pen works well with krita, okular, xournal). The battery is old but is still holding a charge for several hours. I thought the screen would be annoyingly small, but I noticed that it is actually just fine for most web pages. I like the old 1280x1024 a lot more than the nowadays popular 1366x768. I really like it, it's also small and easy to travel with. What you can do with it, is however limited by the Core 2 Duo chip, and the amount of ram. It's not gonna run a heavy IDE, and as a developer that's a bit of a pity, but was also completely expected. I just checked how much people ask for old Thinkpads X200 and X200t and they really ask a lot for them, especially for ones that are already librebooted. That's amazing if you realize that those came out in 2008.
- fouc 5y ago
  Why not upgrade the RAM?
  - rvdginste 5y ago
    The X200 officially only supports 2x2GB, but seems to work fine with 2x4GB, as long as it's the correct type of ram (single-sided if I remember correctly). So I need to find the right type of ram and it's something I plan to upgrade, but didn't get to it yet.
    - dfox 5y ago
      It is probably better to stick with 2G+4G combination, as in that case it is less picky about the correct type of the 4G module (as in, there are modules that work in this configuration, but not as 2x4G) and IIRC the chipset cannot address the entire 8GB of RAM anyway.
    - 5y ago
amarshall 5y ago
Link should probably be changed to remove the anchor part, as this jumps to the bottom.
ho_schi 5y ago
I also still use my ThinkPad X220 happily with Archlinux. Contrary to the author I've built in immediately an OEM IPS-Panel and a Bluetooth 4.0 chip from the next generation. I bought it very late in production cycle because I prefer to keep the classic keyboard with the blue enter-button. The only nasty thing is the USB 3.0 Port which immediately went into sleep states, workarounds are either to connect a device at boot-up or use powertop to wake it up. It is even possible to attach HiDPI displays via DisplayPort (always better than HDMI) but you will fallback to 30 Hz and the tiny GPU will have a hard time. Pros: * Mobile with A4/Letter form factor * Powerful, with a dock it replaces a desktop computer * Standard size keyboard * IPS screen is still state-of-the art * Replaceable battery * Works very well with Linux * With a i7 CPU even provides USB 3.0 Cons: * Modern ThinkPads provide a tighter case, especially the palm rest
- culopatin 5y ago
  But that touchpad though… you must be a track point pro.
  - ho_schi 5y ago
    Of course my friend :) The TouchPad is the area below the palm rest? It requires users to interrupt the workflow. Probably some sort of design element or fidget? Never used.
    - zuhsetaqi 5y ago
      Never had an issue using the trackpad of my MacBook with my thumb without leaving the keyboard. That of course only works with a great trackpad which click everywhere on the surface which is the case with ForceTouch trackpads
    - havkd 5y ago
      I wish I could learn to use the clit :( Every time I put my finger there things end up all over the place.
crowbahr 5y ago
> I won’t cover the installation steps as it’s covered by a fairly comprehensive guide already available here: https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf Link is dead and 404s. The file directory 403s. Always frustrating to see people not mirror.
- ognyankulev 5y ago
  Internet Archive Wayback Machine comes to rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20200805190606/https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20200805190606/https://nitrocast...
  - matt_heimer 5y ago
    Also, they lowercased some Xs. Its at https://nitrocaster.me/files/x220.x230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf https://nitrocaster.me/files/x220.x230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf and linked to from the product page https://nitrocaster.me/store/x220-x230-fhd-mod-kit.html https://nitrocaster.me/store/x220-x230-fhd-mod-kit.html
deleted 5y ago
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platz 5y ago
I've been using a T420. Would I gain much by moving to an X220/X230 ? I've heard they are slightly more performant, but I'm not sure how going from a 14' to a 12.5' screen will feel.
Kaibeezy 5y ago
Surely this can be a business: A laptop that has the characteristics many of us value in an X220, but without violating Lenovo’s IP. My priorities are the keyboard, reliability, legacy ports, replaceable/upgradable parts. I don’t need the latest CPU nor the highest res screen, but these would be nice, and I appreciate they are of high importance to many. I’m a non-tech software exec and can have pretty much any laptop I want, but have been exclusively on one X220 after another since they came out. They kept getting cheaper and cheaper! I’m afraid to look now. At this point, it has been so long that I don’t want to deal with the learning curve or annoyances of anything else, and would probably pay whatever it took for that privilege. At one point, my tech team talked me into a top-of-the line MacBook Pro with every option and dual boot, but I was fed up relearning every little shortcut and shuffled it along after two weeks.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Isn't that pretty much what Ministry of Freedom provide [1]? Or do you specifically refer to X220, and X220 only? Why don't they provide a X220? [1] https://minifree.org/ https://minifree.org/
  - Kaibeezy 5y ago
    Oh, I’d forgotten about that one! Right, those are X200 but she’s apparently got an announcement soon. Maybe X220? If so, yep, that would do it. Why I got stuck on X220? Had been upgrading regularly since X40, but stopped when they got to the last of the V8 Interceptors, know what I mean?
- andrewzah 5y ago
  Well, going from a thinkpad x220 -> mbp is a big change. But I found that the dell xps 13" was very easy to migrate to, and wasn't agonizingly slow for compilation like the older thinkpads. I still like my x201 and x220's, but I relegate those to less intensive tasks. I have openbsd on one that I pretty much just use for writing articles or emails, which is nice. However for travel, the older thinkpads are just so incredibly bulky compared to the xps models or the new framework laptop.
gravypod 5y ago
I'd love to see what one of these would be like with a modern AMD APU or a modern arm chip. I'd love to have a laptop with days of battery life and decent performance
- sharkjacobs 5y ago
  Are there ARM chips available which provide reasonable laptop performance and aren't proprietary Apple chips?
maximilianburke 5y ago
I have an X230 that I've done a bunch of upgrades to. It's got CoreBoot, an FHD IPS screen, a quad core i7-3612QE, plus the usual memory and SSD upgrades. It's pretty neat, but I've been growing tired. I haven't refurbished the battery so its life off charger is abysmal, it's really chunky, the trackpad is awful, and every year or so I need to reflow the Nitrocaster mod solder joints because the display starts to go snowy. It was a fun project to put it all together but I find myself using it less and less as days go by.
eurusd 5y ago
I'm very happy with my old t440 bought for cheap on ebay, just replaced the screen with an IPS I highly recommend this blog, same kind of information than on the link given today, but focused on T440 https://octoperf.com/blog/2018/11/07/thinkpad-t440p-buyers-guide/ https://octoperf.com/blog/2018/11/07/thinkpad-t440p-buyers-g...
pie42000 5y ago
A lot of work to fix a shitty laptop. Why not just buy a well designed one in the first ppace
- benou 5y ago
  because almost all of the others are unfixable shitty laptops? Old Thinkpads are really serviceable, I am still using my X61 because I could update so much of its internals. This is not the case of anything else apart from frame.work, which is not available outside of US unfortunately (for me).
echelon 5y ago
ThinkPads have been my workhorses for well over a decade, but I'm ready to shift from ThinkPad to Framework. Lenovo showed itself to be a bad custodian by loading up their laptops (albeit not the professional line) with adware. We need more companies like Framework, Pine Phone, Fair, etc.
zoomablemind 5y ago
An impressive display of not just the right to repair, but rather the will to improve! Reminded me of the time when I needed to restore network adapter's firmware in T43 after the eeprom apparently got reset by a minor spill around the touchpad. Luckily it was just water, but still the restoration was almost like a neurosurgery. Still hoping to find replacement batteries for the T43 and T430.
heroprotagonist 5y ago
I keep trying to get my 'ultimate' thinkpad but there has been a 4+ month wait on shipping for the last year on the customization options I want. I guess I should have just ordered and waited, but at this point I worry they'll announce the next gen before they even get this one shipped. Also, it truly irritates me how the price for the same exact configuration can vary drastically from week to week, ranging from $2500 to $4500. I'd be pissed if I paid $4500 and then they offered it for $2500 while I was still waiting for mine to arrive.

154 points by LaSombra 5y ago

24t 5y ago

I got a long way upgrading an old X220 but recently purchased a 51nb X210 (modified X201 with a new mobo) and it's excellent. USB 3, heaps of RAM and a 3k x 2k display

eliasmacpherson 5y ago
Heraclitus, a Greek philosopher, is quoted as saying "change is the only constant in life." Cutting my teeth with computers from the 80s through to the 00s, it's bemusing to see people resorting to hotrodding ancient shells of computers that in times previous would have been replaced every two years. Maybe this slower rate of change is more sustainable, or maybe it is a temporary blip. At least the new Apple chips were good, but I'd rather wait for everybody else to catch up, however long it takes. I am increasingly uncomfortable with how slowly things are moving. I don't remember generations past complaining about decceleration, rather the opposite.
- kuschku 5y ago
  It'd be awesome if new computers weren't missing so many desirable features. With a modded old thinkpad I can get 95Wh of battery, I can get another 75Wh in 10 seconds by swapping the external battery. I can get a 1440p 400nits matte display, even a version with HDR support or in 4K exists. I can get as much RAM as I desire, thunderbolt 3 support, USB ports, ethernet port, hdmi, smartcard reader, sd card reader, LTE support, charging via usb c and via the old style connector. I can use old docks and thunderbolt docks. All that's missing is upgrading the CPU and the thunderbolt port to more lanes. Which modern PC offers in 1.1kg-1.3kg 95Wh of battery, such a good display, such great reliability and connectivity, with 16 or 32GB of ddr4-3200mhz ram, 2TB NVMe storage, for less than 500€? Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer? If you could replace the motherboard with these chinese mods, and add the ThinkPad 25 keyboard (with minor mods it fits into the T470) you could turn a T470 into the ultimate ThinkPad.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    Well thanks for that info about the keyboard, since you saying that, I've found this insane t25/t480 story: https://kitsunyan.github.io/blog/frankenpad-story.html https://kitsunyan.github.io/blog/frankenpad-story.html
  - Joeri 5y ago
    Which modern PC can even compete at all with that offer? Excepting the price the m1 macbook air is a strong contender. It is roughly the width and depth of an x220 but half the height, 1.3 kg, P3 400 nits high dpi IPS display, insane battery life (to the point of not needing a spare), P series performance, trackpad so good I don’t miss a trackpoint. It is missing the great keyboard and the ports though, although in practice the only thing I really miss going to the mba from a thinkpad is usb-a.
    - kuschku 5y ago
      Even if you ignore the keyboard and the ports, the M1 has significantly worse battery. The M1 13" has 58Wh, the M1 14" has 70Wh. And while the M1 does use less power in idle, under load it's just as power hungry as all the other processors, so for serious usage the battery would become a bottleneck. The aforementioned thinkpad can get 95Wh, and you can swap batteries if you carry a spare. That's 170Wh of power in just 1.6kg. You can get a LOT of mileage out of that. Now imagine an updated T470 with a more power efficient processor, e.g. a recent ryzen or an M1. Such a hypothetical device would last you forever, even if your system is at full load.
      - turtlebits 5y ago
        You can't compare battery capacities with the M1. Under load the M1 uses significantly less power than any current AMD or Intel CPU. I'm pretty sure the M1 would last longer than your T470 on both batteries (95Wh + 75Wh).
        kuschku 5y ago
        The M1 Max draws in Cinebench single thread 11W, in multi thread 34W. That's not much, but it's not the 2x-4x more efficient it'd need to compensate for the smaller battery. Only for idle, browsing, video en/decoding, etc will you see significant improvements. For developers, the M1 is close, but not perfect.
- sennight 5y ago
  "There's a sucker born every minute." -- Somebody in the 1800s marketing Ye olde Apple® Pro Stand™. I expect the trend to continue, as individuals find it more and more difficult to keep up with the marketing induced conspicuous consumption cycles - they'll accidentally rationalize an already reasonable position: treating durable goods like consumables is stupid and should be scorned instead of aped.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    It was not always conspicious consumption, but certainly yes consumer buying power has gone down and so has the price performance ratio, particularly over the last ten years. There were legitimate improvements between every generation of thinkpad I am aware of up to the Tm30 series, the Tm40 series was a a sidegrade and so was each that followed up until the arrival of the Ryzen chips. key: Xm30/Tm30 with m for model - m = 2/4/5
    - sennight 5y ago
      I was speaking about the broader electronics market. I don't really view anything post Lenovo sale to be a thinkpad - there is practically zero design continuity. I think the [T|W]520 was the last IBM design, the product of a left seat right seat transition, where Lenovo's contribution was restricted to basically slapping their badge on it. After that the consistent method of segmenting by travel/performance design consideration was replaced by an explosion of confusing product offerings that seem to be a lot of distinction without difference. Oh, and they immediately (no joke, the first order of business) got rid of the most iconic thing about the brand: the nice keyboard. It really makes you wonder why they even bother pretending.

jacknews 5y ago

I thought ivyrain provided a way to reflash the bios without having to directly reprogramming the flash chip?

kawsper 5y ago

My girlfriend runs her pet behavior business from a Thinkpad X230, it have taken a lot of drops so the next upgrade is to replace the shell, but I've kept it clean, tightened the screws a couple of times and replaced the keyboard when some keys fell off. It's a workhorse and it just keeps going, she really likes the form factor. In the beginning she didn't like the trackpoint, but now it's the only thing she uses.

zibzab 5y ago
pro tip: you can also have it as an external keyboard. https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyboards-and-mice/keyboards/4y40x49493 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/accessories-and-software/keyb... I first thought it would feel cramped but it turns out its work out better than full size keyboard if you are switching back and forth between laptop and desktop.
- dfox 5y ago
  The Lenovo generation of external UltraNav keyboard has one huge desing issue: the cable is conneted by USB micro B and thus it is not question of if, but when it will break. I thought about just soldering the cable directly into it, but there dose not seem to be a way to non-destructively disassemble the keyboard.
  - zibzab 5y ago
    There is a Bluetooth version too.
- eliasmacpherson 5y ago
  There's a whole cottage industry springing up around these. https://popey.com/blog/2020/12/keyboards-old-and-new/ https://popey.com/blog/2020/12/keyboards-old-and-new/ In future I might pair one with a thinkcentre nano, e-ink or touchscreen and a big lithium battery.
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  Unicomp also offered a Model M-style keyboard with a trackpoint, but it's unavailable right now due to part shortages. I kind of regret not getting one the last time I shopped for a keyboard, but if they show up again, I'll probably pull the trigger. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/EnduraPro

zibzab 5y ago

You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big companies update their fleet. There is a huge modding community, but you don't really need to go that route if all you want is a reliable laptop. Although you might need to change the battery and fan, they're after all 8-10 year old by now.

bodge5000 5y ago
> You can (could ?) buy these refurbished dirt cheap when big companies update their fleet. At least for me, this is half the appeal of thinkpads. They cost so little for their performance, I have a mate that even got a couple for free. Most of mine I didn't even need to change anything. The fans still work nicely (sometimes given them a clean of course) and no real battery problems to speak of. Probably a good idea to anyway, but yeh, they're solid laptops even after all these years
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
The standard display in these devices is terrible though. You should assume you will want to swap it out for something better.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  Simple rule of thumb, you always want the IPS display option.
  - amlib 5y ago
    I got lucky on mine and got an IPS panel... The seller never specified anything about the screen but from the photos I still had a hunch it could be an IPS panel. For a good while after I purchased it I would look all smug at my friends brand new notebooks that still had crappy TN panels over my old (but decked out!) x220
flyinghamster 5y ago
Micro Center often has off-lease ThinkPads at very attractive prices. They may have scuffs and scratches, but they've always been solid performers. The TrackPoint seals the deal for me. I do have a recent Dell Inspiron, but I find I'm mostly using it like a desktop, with an external keyboard and trackball, and a second monitor or TV set plugged in. I just can't stand trackpads.

_nickwhite 5y ago

This is a cool “tinkering” project, but my “ultimate” ThinkPad would rarely see the BIOS boot screen, and sleep/suspend/wake would actually work properly.

pelasaco 5y ago

Love my Thinkpad X220. I changed already keyboard, screen, some parts of its case.. It runs on SSD and it has 16GB RAM. I love it. The only issue is with CPU. Mine still running on a i5 and I would love to update it, to at least an i7.. is that possible?

eliasmacpherson 5y ago
The chip is soldered in, and the heat dissipation from the i7 2640m in the x220 model is woeful, 30-40 degrees at idle and then 90-96 under load typically. The fan will sit at 4500-5000rpm to get the temperature back below 50 degrees, depending on your thinkfan profiles in linux. A docking station makes matters worse. I cannot wait to replace mine.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  but what would be the alternative? There is any CPU update that would be possible for us?
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    I don't think there is enough demand for anybody to make a replacement motherboard for the shell, maybe some person will undertake a solo project to do it for a lot of money. Apparently you can fit an x230 board in there but the x230 does not accept x220 batteries and so you have to flash the EC too. I'm not massively impressed with the performance of the x230 i7 and the heat dissipation will remain a big problem, so I don't consider this swap worth the effort. https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3fzm0c/x230_motherboard_in_x220_chassis/ https://old.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/3fzm0c/x230_mothe... https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Embedded_Controller_Firmware https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Embedded_Controller_Firmware There are more options if you want to get into soldering CPUs https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=121844 https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=121844
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  I have a couple of used X201 Tablets with i7s that I picked up a few years ago to use as beaters, and I'll heartily agree that an i7 in a laptop is ill-suited for any kind of extended load[0]. If I set the BIOS to the "normal" setting, the 2.13 GHz i7 L 640 throttles down to 1.2 GHz. There's also a "performance" setting; I don't recall what it throttled to when using it, but I do recall that it would let the CPU get up to 99°C, one degree shy of shutdown. They stay in the low 80s [edit: under load] in normal mode. If you only need short bursts of high performance, the i7 is fine. [0] YMMV, particularly with newer processors

DoingIsLearning 5y ago

I don't want to start a religious keyboard war but does anybody know the actual rationale for the Ctrl Fn swap in ThinkPads? I agree that it is more ergonomic, but I am just curious if that is the actual reason for the swap? Or if there is some older legacy aspect or story behind it in the ThinkPads?

sc11 5y ago
They originally put it there because it's easier to locate apparently: > The Fn key was originally placed by the ThinkPad designers in the lower left hand corner to make the key easier to locate when using the keystroke combinations. There was a rationale. This is especially handy for turning on the ThinkLight in the dark. Aim for the two extreme corners. https://web.archive.org/web/20111115202457/http://www.lenovoblogs.com/designmatters/2009/07/fn-versus-ctrl-let-the-games-begin/ https://web.archive.org/web/20111115202457/http://www.lenovo...
zeveb 5y ago
The best place for the control key is determined by two things: finger strength and relative frequency of use. The control key is typically used far more often than alt/meta, super or (for those lucky enough to have one) hyper; as such, it should be positioned so that it may be struck with a strong finger: an index or middle finger would be great, or perhaps a thumb (as we learnt to do with Macs back in the 80s). As such, it seems remarkable that most keyboards place it far outboard, where all one can do is strike it with the weakest finger of all. Even the superior alternative of caps lock as control is not as good as alt as control. All of which is to say that the control key placement on the ThinkPads, while imperfect, is better than on most laptops.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  Bottom left and bottom right (the control keys on both sides are useful) are fine positions for a lot of non-laptop keyboards, namely those keyboards where you can comfortably use the palm of your hand to hit control (learnt that from Xah Lee). It is problematic for laptop keyboards, however.
- 5y ago

alexvoda 5y ago

What are the aspects that are considered superior for the older 7-row keyboards compared to the newer 6-row keyboards? I have always seen a lot of praise for the older 7-row keyboards but it is not clear to me what makes them superior and too much time has passed since I used one to remember the feel. Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? They do indeed have a very iconic look. Personally I enjoy the clear and sharp separation of keys I can feel on so called chicklet keys. I never liked the keys with lean sloping edges. For the same reason I prefer XDA keycaps for mechanical kkeyboards. And I think the 6-row arrangement alows for a larger touchpad.

eliasmacpherson 5y ago
> Is it the feel of the membrane that has changed? Is it the layout itself that is missed? The shape of the keys? Is it key travel? Yes to all four. The chicklet keys remind my muscle memory that the layout has changed from what I am used to so 'touch typing' for anything that involves pgup/pgdn/home/end/insert/delete is now a chore to look and see where they have moved things. The most egregious crime I have seen on some models is there is no LED for fn or capslock anywhere, and is to be provided by the OS, such as the e550 and e330
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- flyinghamster 5y ago
  The problem I have with chiclet keyboards is that the keycaps aren't dished enough (or at all). That tends to encourage me to hit keys off-center and sometimes snag adjacent keys.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    That is another valid point, I find that disorienting.
- alexvoda 5y ago

tristor 5y ago

I bought a modified X230 on eBay several years ago, then upgraded the RAM to the maximum it would support and installed a 1TB SSD. It’s been going strong for years only needing battery replacement and is my “car laptop” I use for running diagnostics, tuning, and in car data logging in my race cars. It’s taken a SERIOUS beating and still performs. I wish I could buy another more modern variant, but the original seller is no longer on eBay. Anyone have a link to reliable sellers of retromodded X series?

nix23 5y ago
https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/systems/?set_language=en https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/systems/?set_language=en or https://minifree.org/ https://minifree.org/
- tristor 5y ago
  It appears that these are just base older Thinkpads with Libreboot. That's great, but not what I am referring to. There are people in China who are retromodding older Thinkpads with new screens, motherboards, and CPUs. The X230 I previously bought is basically the same thing as it left the factory originally, since it came with relatively decent hardware capabilities out of the box, but similar X220s are generally upgraded to at least a Haswell generation CPU / chipset. The big factor being that they are capable of supporting 16GB of RAM, which is a necessity for a modern laptop. An X200 can't have 16GB of RAM, and while 8GB usually works its not officially supported, the official maximum is 4GB. I'd like a newer retromodded X series because I have heard that some folks are bringing them up to new enough generations of hardware that they support nVME disks, which would be a significant performance advantage over a SATA SSD, and the power improvements would increase battery life in newer generation hardware as well. I'm fine if it's an X200 shell, but I don't want original X200 hardware.

NoGravitas 5y ago

I love the form-factor of my X230 (which is my most-used personal computer), and I do wish I could have the X220 keyboard and a 1080p display. But there is nothing that could convince me to undertake a project like this. (My offspring has an X240, and it's terrible. And I hear that newer ThinkPads even have soldered-in RAM and glued-in batteries. I don't know what I'll do when my X230 wears out. Maybe bite the bullet and buy a Framework.)

NikolaNovak 5y ago
For me, the entire 40 series was a disaster, especially with the removal of all physical trackpad/trackpoint buttons. I've actually seen a security architect repeatedly slam the client-provided T540 onto a desk in rage. Lenovo apparently saw the error of their ways with the 50 series and they had dedicated buttons back ever since. X250 was my favourite of that form-factor, as it still had external and internal battery replaceable easily by user. I seem to recall even upgrading the RAM. They can be found for $250ish CAD if you wait/bargain a little. I too however could never commit to a project like that; just don't have the time/energy/priority. I believe it's the type of thing you undertake for the process, not results :). I ended up being one of those fools who paid for a T470-but-with-good-keyboard, the T25 Anniversary model, and 3 years later I'm still a very happy fool :).
- andix 5y ago
  I replaced the trackpad in my t440s with a spare part from a t450s. No problem.
  - ryantgtg 5y ago
    I might be the only one that likes this t440s style trackpad. I have no desire to mod it. I love that you physically click it. Coming from a macbook, I was at first baffled that apparently you can’t rest your thumb on it while moving the cursor, but I quickly got used to that. And now I can’t stand macbook trackpads!
    - 5y ago

rvdginste 5y ago

A couple of months ago, I bought a used Thinkpad X200t in excellent condition. I knew about the popularity of the older Thinkpads and libreboot, and I was interested in a tablet pc because I wanted to use it to read and make notes, so when I came across that X200t (in excellent condition and good price) it was an easy decision to buy it. Its specs are low (256GB SSD, Core 2 duo, 4GB RAM, 1280x1024 screen), but I find it very usable for browsing, reading and annotating pdfs. It runs Debian stable with KDE Plasma (the pen works well with krita, okular, xournal). The battery is old but is still holding a charge for several hours. I thought the screen would be annoyingly small, but I noticed that it is actually just fine for most web pages. I like the old 1280x1024 a lot more than the nowadays popular 1366x768. I really like it, it's also small and easy to travel with. What you can do with it, is however limited by the Core 2 Duo chip, and the amount of ram. It's not gonna run a heavy IDE, and as a developer that's a bit of a pity, but was also completely expected. I just checked how much people ask for old Thinkpads X200 and X200t and they really ask a lot for them, especially for ones that are already librebooted. That's amazing if you realize that those came out in 2008.

fouc 5y ago
Why not upgrade the RAM?
- rvdginste 5y ago
  The X200 officially only supports 2x2GB, but seems to work fine with 2x4GB, as long as it's the correct type of ram (single-sided if I remember correctly). So I need to find the right type of ram and it's something I plan to upgrade, but didn't get to it yet.
  - dfox 5y ago
    It is probably better to stick with 2G+4G combination, as in that case it is less picky about the correct type of the 4G module (as in, there are modules that work in this configuration, but not as 2x4G) and IIRC the chipset cannot address the entire 8GB of RAM anyway.
  - 5y ago

amarshall 5y ago

Link should probably be changed to remove the anchor part, as this jumps to the bottom.

ho_schi 5y ago

I also still use my ThinkPad X220 happily with Archlinux. Contrary to the author I've built in immediately an OEM IPS-Panel and a Bluetooth 4.0 chip from the next generation. I bought it very late in production cycle because I prefer to keep the classic keyboard with the blue enter-button. The only nasty thing is the USB 3.0 Port which immediately went into sleep states, workarounds are either to connect a device at boot-up or use powertop to wake it up. It is even possible to attach HiDPI displays via DisplayPort (always better than HDMI) but you will fallback to 30 Hz and the tiny GPU will have a hard time. Pros: * Mobile with A4/Letter form factor * Powerful, with a dock it replaces a desktop computer * Standard size keyboard * IPS screen is still state-of-the art * Replaceable battery * Works very well with Linux * With a i7 CPU even provides USB 3.0 Cons: * Modern ThinkPads provide a tighter case, especially the palm rest

culopatin 5y ago
But that touchpad though… you must be a track point pro.
- ho_schi 5y ago
  Of course my friend :) The TouchPad is the area below the palm rest? It requires users to interrupt the workflow. Probably some sort of design element or fidget? Never used.
  - zuhsetaqi 5y ago
    Never had an issue using the trackpad of my MacBook with my thumb without leaving the keyboard. That of course only works with a great trackpad which click everywhere on the surface which is the case with ForceTouch trackpads
  - havkd 5y ago
    I wish I could learn to use the clit :( Every time I put my finger there things end up all over the place.

crowbahr 5y ago

> I won’t cover the installation steps as it’s covered by a fairly comprehensive guide already available here: https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf Link is dead and 404s. The file directory 403s. Always frustrating to see people not mirror.

ognyankulev 5y ago
Internet Archive Wayback Machine comes to rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20200805190606/https://nitrocaster.me/files/X220.X230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20200805190606/https://nitrocast...
- matt_heimer 5y ago
  Also, they lowercased some Xs. Its at https://nitrocaster.me/files/x220.x230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf https://nitrocaster.me/files/x220.x230_fhd_mod_rev5_v0.2.pdf and linked to from the product page https://nitrocaster.me/store/x220-x230-fhd-mod-kit.html https://nitrocaster.me/store/x220-x230-fhd-mod-kit.html

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platz 5y ago

I've been using a T420. Would I gain much by moving to an X220/X230 ? I've heard they are slightly more performant, but I'm not sure how going from a 14' to a 12.5' screen will feel.

Kaibeezy 5y ago

Surely this can be a business: A laptop that has the characteristics many of us value in an X220, but without violating Lenovo’s IP. My priorities are the keyboard, reliability, legacy ports, replaceable/upgradable parts. I don’t need the latest CPU nor the highest res screen, but these would be nice, and I appreciate they are of high importance to many. I’m a non-tech software exec and can have pretty much any laptop I want, but have been exclusively on one X220 after another since they came out. They kept getting cheaper and cheaper! I’m afraid to look now. At this point, it has been so long that I don’t want to deal with the learning curve or annoyances of anything else, and would probably pay whatever it took for that privilege. At one point, my tech team talked me into a top-of-the line MacBook Pro with every option and dual boot, but I was fed up relearning every little shortcut and shuffled it along after two weeks.

Fnoord 5y ago
Isn't that pretty much what Ministry of Freedom provide [1]? Or do you specifically refer to X220, and X220 only? Why don't they provide a X220? [1] https://minifree.org/ https://minifree.org/
- Kaibeezy 5y ago
  Oh, I’d forgotten about that one! Right, those are X200 but she’s apparently got an announcement soon. Maybe X220? If so, yep, that would do it. Why I got stuck on X220? Had been upgrading regularly since X40, but stopped when they got to the last of the V8 Interceptors, know what I mean?
andrewzah 5y ago
Well, going from a thinkpad x220 -> mbp is a big change. But I found that the dell xps 13" was very easy to migrate to, and wasn't agonizingly slow for compilation like the older thinkpads. I still like my x201 and x220's, but I relegate those to less intensive tasks. I have openbsd on one that I pretty much just use for writing articles or emails, which is nice. However for travel, the older thinkpads are just so incredibly bulky compared to the xps models or the new framework laptop.

gravypod 5y ago

I'd love to see what one of these would be like with a modern AMD APU or a modern arm chip. I'd love to have a laptop with days of battery life and decent performance

sharkjacobs 5y ago
Are there ARM chips available which provide reasonable laptop performance and aren't proprietary Apple chips?

maximilianburke 5y ago

I have an X230 that I've done a bunch of upgrades to. It's got CoreBoot, an FHD IPS screen, a quad core i7-3612QE, plus the usual memory and SSD upgrades. It's pretty neat, but I've been growing tired. I haven't refurbished the battery so its life off charger is abysmal, it's really chunky, the trackpad is awful, and every year or so I need to reflow the Nitrocaster mod solder joints because the display starts to go snowy. It was a fun project to put it all together but I find myself using it less and less as days go by.

eurusd 5y ago

I'm very happy with my old t440 bought for cheap on ebay, just replaced the screen with an IPS I highly recommend this blog, same kind of information than on the link given today, but focused on T440 https://octoperf.com/blog/2018/11/07/thinkpad-t440p-buyers-guide/ https://octoperf.com/blog/2018/11/07/thinkpad-t440p-buyers-g...

pie42000 5y ago

A lot of work to fix a shitty laptop. Why not just buy a well designed one in the first ppace

benou 5y ago
because almost all of the others are unfixable shitty laptops? Old Thinkpads are really serviceable, I am still using my X61 because I could update so much of its internals. This is not the case of anything else apart from frame.work, which is not available outside of US unfortunately (for me).

echelon 5y ago

ThinkPads have been my workhorses for well over a decade, but I'm ready to shift from ThinkPad to Framework. Lenovo showed itself to be a bad custodian by loading up their laptops (albeit not the professional line) with adware. We need more companies like Framework, Pine Phone, Fair, etc.

zoomablemind 5y ago

An impressive display of not just the right to repair, but rather the will to improve! Reminded me of the time when I needed to restore network adapter's firmware in T43 after the eeprom apparently got reset by a minor spill around the touchpad. Luckily it was just water, but still the restoration was almost like a neurosurgery. Still hoping to find replacement batteries for the T43 and T430.

heroprotagonist 5y ago

I keep trying to get my 'ultimate' thinkpad but there has been a 4+ month wait on shipping for the last year on the customization options I want. I guess I should have just ordered and waited, but at this point I worry they'll announce the next gen before they even get this one shipped. Also, it truly irritates me how the price for the same exact configuration can vary drastically from week to week, ranging from $2500 to $4500. I'd be pissed if I paid $4500 and then they offered it for $2500 while I was still waiting for mine to arrive.