3 ms·

> Willow wood becomes rock-hard underwater and almost doesn’t deteriorate. Research in the late 1960s showed that most fascine mattresses submerged for more th

by abeppu 5y ago

> Willow wood becomes rock-hard underwater and almost doesn’t deteriorate. Research in the late 1960s showed that most fascine mattresses submerged for more than 100 years — some dating from the early 1820s — remained intact. > Unlike most other tree species, willow tolerates saltwater and (temporarily) wet feet. As such, the coppice plantations could use land that was not suitable for agriculture. > On impoverished soils, the Dutch planted alder trees between the willow trees. The falling leaves of the alder fertilised the soils and increased the lifespan and production of the willow trees. Building long-lasting critical infrastructure using locally-sourced, carbon-negative resources! I have no idea about dykes specifically but I suspect today someone pitching a public works project based on woven willow would be laughed at -- and instead we would insist on pouring some reinforced concrete, using carbon-intensive cement, and it would begin falling apart from rusted rebar in 15 years.

Syonyk 5y ago
What if we build it out of graphene instead? There is an awful lot of knowledge that's been mostly discarded because it doesn't fit the "modern, industrial, profit-driven ways of thinking." Some of it is wrong, but an awful lot of it is simply "not easily to scale with machinery to maximum profits." Or, in some cases, just no longer considered stylish (stainless steel vs brass in hospitals being a case of "the new is literally worse than the old in every way that matters, while looking new" - the copper in brass is a biocide). It's probably worth picking up a printed copy or two of LTM... modern society is running out of runway awfully fast.
- bruce343434 5y ago
  What's LTM?
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Website where article is posted
- abeppu 5y ago
  > What if we build it out of graphene instead? I think the implication (that carbon negative local materials are unscalable) is unfair. We haven't built anything huge with graphene yet and the per-gram costs are still crazy (e.g. on the order of $100/g). By comparison, this article is about relatively large-scale projects that we actually did, decades ago. > Between 1954 and 1967, during works on the rivers throughout the country, they sank 1,200,000 km2 fascine mattresses to the bottom. We're in a context where we simultaneously want to: - build and replace infrastructure - decrease our carbon footprint and go negative where possible - protect large coastal areas from storm impacts - prevent further habitat loss and loss of ecological diversity And more recently we have become aware that sprawling international supply chains are a liability. I think more than just concerns over whether something scales at maximum profit, we also have too much institutional inertia. "If we pick different materials, will permitting and oversight bodies be convinced about safety and longevity claims? Will workers need to be retrained? Will the planning process need to change? Better to just do what we've always done; it's easier." To be fair, I suppose I _have_ heard people talk about carbon sequestration in cross-laminated timber for large buildings. I have not heard people talk about being able to source that timber locally, or in a way which is especially beneficial to the land. https://investingnews.com/daily/tech-investing/nanoscience-investing/graphene-investing/graphene-cost/ https://investingnews.com/daily/tech-investing/nanoscience-i...
oasisbob 5y ago
> I suspect today someone pitching a public works project based on woven willow would be laughed at Live fascine bundles and live stakes from willow are commonly used riparian restoration techniques. Less elaborate and smaller, but the technique is still very much appreciated. https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/publications/orpmctn6826.pdf https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/public...
klyrs 5y ago
The empress tree showed up on HN a little while back, specifically for its incredible ability to capture carbon. I wonder how well it would fare under water https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-02/we-already-have-the-world-s-most-efficient-carbon-capture-technology https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-02/we-alread...
tda 5y ago
Willow tree branches are still used ins some modern hydrailic infrastructure construction today. And nor for historical reasons, it is still practical and cost effective. In the past the branches had two functions: as a rigid frame and as a filter layer (to prevent soil from being washed away from under the erosion protection). The frame functions to make the filter a rigid structure that one can sink to the bottom in a controlled manner by dumbing rocks on it. In modern construction geotextiles are used as filters, but these are sometimes made rigid with bundles of willow tree branches.

by abeppu 5y ago

Syonyk 5y ago

What if we build it out of graphene instead? There is an awful lot of knowledge that's been mostly discarded because it doesn't fit the "modern, industrial, profit-driven ways of thinking." Some of it is wrong, but an awful lot of it is simply "not easily to scale with machinery to maximum profits." Or, in some cases, just no longer considered stylish (stainless steel vs brass in hospitals being a case of "the new is literally worse than the old in every way that matters, while looking new" - the copper in brass is a biocide). It's probably worth picking up a printed copy or two of LTM... modern society is running out of runway awfully fast.

bruce343434 5y ago
What's LTM?
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Website where article is posted
abeppu 5y ago
> What if we build it out of graphene instead? I think the implication (that carbon negative local materials are unscalable) is unfair. We haven't built anything huge with graphene yet and the per-gram costs are still crazy (e.g. on the order of $100/g). By comparison, this article is about relatively large-scale projects that we actually did, decades ago. > Between 1954 and 1967, during works on the rivers throughout the country, they sank 1,200,000 km2 fascine mattresses to the bottom. We're in a context where we simultaneously want to: - build and replace infrastructure - decrease our carbon footprint and go negative where possible - protect large coastal areas from storm impacts - prevent further habitat loss and loss of ecological diversity And more recently we have become aware that sprawling international supply chains are a liability. I think more than just concerns over whether something scales at maximum profit, we also have too much institutional inertia. "If we pick different materials, will permitting and oversight bodies be convinced about safety and longevity claims? Will workers need to be retrained? Will the planning process need to change? Better to just do what we've always done; it's easier." To be fair, I suppose I _have_ heard people talk about carbon sequestration in cross-laminated timber for large buildings. I have not heard people talk about being able to source that timber locally, or in a way which is especially beneficial to the land. https://investingnews.com/daily/tech-investing/nanoscience-investing/graphene-investing/graphene-cost/ https://investingnews.com/daily/tech-investing/nanoscience-i...

oasisbob 5y ago

> I suspect today someone pitching a public works project based on woven willow would be laughed at Live fascine bundles and live stakes from willow are commonly used riparian restoration techniques. Less elaborate and smaller, but the technique is still very much appreciated. https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/publications/orpmctn6826.pdf https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/public...

klyrs 5y ago

The empress tree showed up on HN a little while back, specifically for its incredible ability to capture carbon. I wonder how well it would fare under water https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-02/we-already-have-the-world-s-most-efficient-carbon-capture-technology https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-08-02/we-alread...

tda 5y ago

Willow tree branches are still used ins some modern hydrailic infrastructure construction today. And nor for historical reasons, it is still practical and cost effective. In the past the branches had two functions: as a rigid frame and as a filter layer (to prevent soil from being washed away from under the erosion protection). The frame functions to make the filter a rigid structure that one can sink to the bottom in a controlled manner by dumbing rocks on it. In modern construction geotextiles are used as filters, but these are sometimes made rigid with bundles of willow tree branches.