21 ms·

The reason I really like the idea of a crate motor is because one of my pet peeves about new vehicles, and EVs and Teslas in particular, is that they seem to in

• wintermutestwin 5y ago
  Do you use paper maps to figure out where you are going and stop at payphones to make calls?
  • ehnto 5y ago
    Can you drive from home to work without being hand held by technological pacifiers?
    • standardUser 5y ago
      You drive in complete silence? Or were you just singling out only specific forms of technology with which to mock a stranger?
      • qq4 5y ago
        I drive in silence. I don't understand why some people feel the need to _always_ be listening to something.
      • ehnto 5y ago
        They were mocking someone for choosing to do without technology, it was just a snippy retort. Why aren't you jumping down their throat? edit: Turns out I was wrong about the parent's intent. For what it's worth, I do actually drive in silence a lot. There is something about a vehicle in transit that temporarily relieves you of responsibilities outside of the drive, and it's a great time to reflect. I could reflect on this comment thread, for example. Two times in the past few months I've been wrong about someone's intent on HN and met them with a little too much spice than was fair, that's worth reflecting on.
      • esalman 5y ago
        I sometimes drive in complete silence. The friction between the tires and the asphalt is close to white noise. It contains a range of high and low frequencies that you can't easily filter out, something that I tried to deal with at a computer vision class project involving self-driving tech. Also it can be amazingly therapeutic.
      • HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
        I do. Is this unusual?
    • nindalf 5y ago
      This is unnecessarily rude. Implying that a person needs a pacifier like an infant is snarky. > please don’t sneer As the HN guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) say.
      • ehnto 5y ago
        It was a counterpoint to his sneer, I felt like it was a productive re-contextualization of their narrow viewpoint. I am really surprised people seem to be missing the parent comments snark but not mine, it was really on the nose.
        • nindalf 5y ago
          If you see someone sneering, then request them not to sneer. Link them to the HN guidelines. Counter-sneering ruins the discussion.
          • dylan604 5y ago
            If you're not dang, isn't linking to the guidelines against the guidelines?
            • detaro 5y ago
              why would it be?
              • dylan604 5y ago
                because it serves no real purpose except to make the person doing the referencing feel a bit smug
            • nindalf 5y ago
              Does it say so in the guidelines?
        • wintermutestwin 5y ago
  • amarshall 5y ago
    This is missing the point, I think. The point is not to be disconnected entirely, it’s to have control over that connection. While driving, one can turn off their phone, run a fully open-source device, old-school GPS, or whatever. But cars don’t give much if any control over the software they’re running or their broader connectivity. They’re oft becoming highly-integrated proprietary devices.
    • wintermutestwin 5y ago
      Good point, but can't your phone's location still be tracked when powered off?
      • sjwalter 5y ago
        Exactly one phone on the market, the latest and greatest Apple phone, has this capability. So, no. My flipphone can't be tracked when the battery is taken out.
        • amarshall 5y ago
          This functionality can be disabled in Settings, though.
      • amarshall 5y ago
        Maybe, but in the most paranoid case it’s a lot more practical and straightforward to put a small device in a faraday cage or remove the battery than doing so for the car being actively driven.
  • dqpb 5y ago
    Before iPhones, humans had a rather impressive ability to create a mental map of a city. Upon seeing or hearing an address, they could rapidly plan a path to the location with nothing more than their own mind!
  • sjwalter 5y ago
    I do use paper maps as my phone doesn't support apps or maps. They're surprisingly useful. Payphones, nope. Still got a flip phone. Yep, can be used to track me, but I don't take it everywhere. Also, your position seems to be something like, If you can't be perfectly private from every possible angle, any choice enhancing privacy imperfectly is silly. I don't agree with that.
    • dylan604 5y ago
      >but I don't take it everywhere. at least having the option of taking the battery out while still taking it with you just in case you do need it is a bonus
    • wintermutestwin 5y ago
      >Also, your position seems to be something like, If you can't be perfectly private from every possible angle, any choice enhancing privacy imperfectly is silly. That wasn't my position. I'm sorry it was easy to assume it was. I was saying that it is very impractical to drive without a smartphone and that it is tracking you in a more ubiquitous way.
      • deltarholamda 5y ago
        >I was saying that it is very impractical to drive without a smartphone Man, I remember driving in the 80s, we just wandered around lost for two decades. I live in West Undershirt, PA now because I just happened to end up there when I went out for pizza. One time, around 1998, I went to visit a friend in Houston. All I had were some sketchy instructions given over email, and I ended up a warlord ruling over the stretch of I-45 between Juan's Tacos and the Sherwin-Williams.
      • sjwalter 5y ago
        >I was saying that it is very impractical to drive without a smartphone Dude, I think you should really question this. I've been smartphone free for over a year. It's... easy. In fact, easier than having a smartphone in many ways! So strange how quickly our society became psychologically chained to these blipping bleeping distracting infernal machines.
  • WillPostForFood 5y ago
    Not trying to be snarky, but if you use your brain to figure out where you are going (perhaps referring to paper or digital maps before leaving), you learn your route, understand the geography of your location, and don't create a permanent dependency on being connect to the internet.
    • wintermutestwin 5y ago
      As a consultant in the 90s, I had to go to hundreds of client locations all over the Bay Area. I had a Thomas map book for each county and had to waste much brain space and time figuring it all out. Going back seems insanely primitive.
  • mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Maps were downloadable once, maps.me still is. No reason that can't continue, besides big brother having a vested interest in what you are doing.
    • dylan604 5y ago
      Big Brother to me is still the gov't vs individual EvilCorps hoovering up data to make a buck. Both could still be "the man", but to me Big Brother is specific. Maybe I have the term wrong or has it become more encompassing?
      • sjwalter 5y ago
        There isn't much of a difference these days, from where I'm sitting. The government and the heads of bigcos are pretty much on the same teams.
        • dylan604 5y ago
          This is just quite simply sad in how true it is.
      • mixmastamyk 5y ago
        Once out, public info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine
        • dylan604 5y ago
          EvilCorps are hoovering up a hell of lot more data than I voluntarily give them. I give no data voluntarily to FB, yet with all of their track bullshit they take it from me. I have no idea if a website is using their code or not, so by me browsing said website is not me giving them my permission. Same with Googs and their analytics.
          • mixmastamyk 5y ago
  • stcredzero 5y ago
    I've done this in real life!
    • wintermutestwin 5y ago
      I have too - back in the 80s-90s. I couldn't imagine going back to that. Did you do it in the post smartphone era?
      • stcredzero 5y ago
        1st time I drove across the US to see stuff was the summer of 1992. I put 10000 miles on the car zig-zagging across the country, up the west coast and to Alaska.
• ehnto 5y ago
  Exactly my thoughts! It's just an electric motor, it need not entangle my automobile in a web of SaaS interconnectivity. I think it's a problem the industry over, but EVs are particularly afflicted because they still serve the early adopters and technophiles. I'm liking the trend of high-tech unchained lately, I'm seeing more instances of really great technology being supplied and built with consumer freedom and portability in mind.
  • mixmastamyk 5y ago
    Another problem is the ability to "refuel" with privacy as well. The fact that the charger identifies your car is a big no-no in my book. Also many/most? places demanding an account/credit card to pay.
    • dylan604 5y ago
      >places demanding an account/credit card to pay. I'm with you on demanding an account. However, if you have self-serve chargers that you want to be available 24/7 while also being unmanned, accepting cash can be troublesome. I hate trying to get cash to be accepted by automated machines, as they have to have the bill in the perfect condition or they just spit it back out at you. Also, an unmanned kiosk accepting cash is just asking for security issues. Yes, it's just a reverse ATM, but if you can avoid it by not storing cash then so much the better for them.
      • throwaway0a5e 5y ago
        >I'm with you on demanding an account. However, if you have self-serve chargers that you want to be available 24/7 while also being unmanned, accepting cash can be troublesome. Vending machines do just fine.
        • nitrogen 5y ago
          Vending machines usually don't have to deal with $50-$100 transactions though.
• myself248 5y ago
  Bingo, and well said. Buying a Tesla and then ripping out all the bits that treat me as the driven rather than the driver, would basically leave me with a bare chassis and powertrain anyway, and that hardly seems sane.
• burnt_toast 5y ago
  Spot on. I drive an old Cherokee and I love it. I hope to someday convert it to electric when the time comes while retaining it's utilitarian design.
• Workaccount2 5y ago
  Buying an electric car is turning into "buying into the Apple business model applied to cars"
• samsolomon 5y ago
  This is why I love Bollinger's approach to trucks. They are electric, but focused on utility and simplicity. https://bollingermotors.com/ https://bollingermotors.com/ While likely way more than I would ever pay for a vehicle, I appreciate the approach to design. EDIT: If you've got a little time to kill. There are some videos on youtube that give a better idea of what these trucks look like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHOuenVXPig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHOuenVXPig
  • sjwalter 5y ago
    Had never heard of them but they look awesome. I'm in love with boxy-looking utility vehicles lately. These look like a less gaudy version of the Mercedes G-Wagon and appeal to my sensibilities. Thanks!
    • stcredzero 5y ago
      A lot of pickups are boxy. The Cybertruck isn't exactly svelte, but it apparently has much better aero and mileage. I've been wondering for awhile: Would a sloped bed cover going from the top of the cab to the gate increase the mileage of any pickup truck by some whopping amount? It seems like the aero would go from "ginormously" bad, to just "meh," which could still be a lot.
      • mcguire 5y ago
        Probably. The tonneau cover industry likes to quote a senior-thesis type paper from university engineering students that even one of those improves aerodynamics by 10%. And modern trucks aren't as bad as they used to be.
        • lostapathy 5y ago
          Modern trucks are better than they used to be, but they seem to give most of the efficiency back in terms of larger towing/payload capacity. It's absolutely bonkers how capable a "half ton pickup" can be equipped compared to 20 years ago.
• natch 5y ago
  >always-connected, auto-updating tablet Updates are a good thing. Since you said "Teslas in particular" you are misinformed about them being auto updating. It is true that they do automatically download the updates, but the updates are opt in. Also, Tesla allows opt out for data collection from the car. In fact, it seems like you will be very surprised to learn, the default setting value is opt out. They also do collect a lot of driving data that they do not associate with the VIN or any other identifier, in my understanding. You could argue that when the driver opts in to anonymous data collection (again, no identification of the vehicle, etc.) it is still getting exterior pictures of their home and driveway. OK. But, opt in. There are tradeoffs. You allow collection of some data, or not… up to you. That seems like a fair setup to me. >invariably turn your vehicle into an always-connected, auto-updating tablet, with zero privacy. "Invariably"… no. "Always connected"… no. Often connected, certainly. "Auto-updating"… no. "Zero privacy"… no. This seems like a really poorly informed take, when it's opt out by default. Yet you currently have the top comment in this article.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • ReactiveJelly 5y ago
    > the default setting is opt out That's called opt-in.
    • natch 5y ago
      You're making a framing error but I see I could have been more clear. The term opt-in is used to describe the entire scheme as a UX concept. The setting value itself (opt in versus opt out) is a concept at a different level. To be more clear I should have said "the default setting value is opt out"… fixed; thank you.
• smileysteve 5y ago
  This will be useful in the boating industry as well. Most inland waterway inboards use marin-ized crate engines; often this is the Chevy line (v6, v8s), but the Ford Raptor V8 provided a nice alternative in ~2016. 281HP is also right in line with the market ~280-320hp.
  • stickfigure 5y ago
    Where would you plug it in?
    • smileysteve 5y ago
      It's not ucommon to have AC installed to docks/piers/marinas. these are useful for lifts (capable of lifting up to 10k lbs), accessories (AC, refrigerators, microwaves for cabin cruisers). Electric boats are more common in Europe, Correct Craft makes the 220e in its lineup this year.
      • stickfigure 5y ago
        Here in the US, I've never seen a slip with anything other than a 120v connection. And I'm pretty sure you'd pop circuits like crazy if more than a few boats on a dock tried to draw the full amperage. It makes more sense in Europe where you already have 240v. But the marinas here just aren't set up for this.
    • nitrogen 5y ago
      Presumably docks have shore power connections.
    • bretpiatt 5y ago
      You don't: https://www.pontooners.com/solar-powered-pontoon-boats/ https://www.pontooners.com/solar-powered-pontoon-boats/
      • stickfigure 5y ago
        You will not successfully solar-power a 281hp motor.
• wcunning 5y ago
  I'm unclear on whether or not this actually lets you avoid that. The concept truck seems to have most of the goofy Tesla knockoff tablet stuff from the Mustang Mach E that they pulled the motor and battery from. Similarly, I have more than a little trepidation at the quoted price point -- does that include the motor and the electronics and all the smarts to run both? Do I need their fancy dashboard from the concept? Is it included? etc. etc. Disclaimer: I worked for Ford until the beginning of this year, so some of skepticism is likely sour grapes, but some of it is because I saw what difficulties there were in changing years and years of assumptions on a dime because you went from an ICE to a BEV.
  • MonaroVXR 5y ago
    Do you have some more insights in Ford in this subject or any other thing. I am interested in cars. (Hence my name I guess, which wasn't really a well thought out name.) Genuine interests. Greetings
  • Kirby64 5y ago
    It should. All you need is to provide it the high voltage input, and an ECU to control the motor. None of those need to be integrated into the 'giant tablet', they aren't even integrated into that tablet on Tesla vehicles, either. I assume what you'd get with the crate motor is similar to what you'd get with any crate motor: You get the motor, the transmission (probably, since it's usually part of an EV motor package), the drive circuitry, and that's about it. ECU, HV battery, drive axles, etc are on your nickel.
  • mewse-hn 5y ago
    Yeah I saw the photo of the charging port where the gas cap would usually be and also wondered how much is in the kit with the crate motor
  • sbierwagen 5y ago
    >does that include the motor and the electronics and all the smarts to run both? Nope: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-9000-MACHE >Does NOT include: Traction inverter, Control system, Battery
• pmorici 5y ago
  Check out Bollinger Motors. They seem to be doing an electric truck but with more traditional dumb controls. https://bollingermotors.com/ https://bollingermotors.com/
• a_ba 5y ago
  This, but not "only" privacy. It will be interesting to see how the larger issue of "ownership" is going to play out in an iCar (TM) world . Considering that you may still legally own the car but you're only licensing out your car manufacturer's software, it doesn't take much imagination of getting physically restrained by your cars' over the air capabilities: - Missed an installment on your lease/financing plan? -> Grounded - Took your car in for service at an non-authorized shop? (think Apple disabling third party charging equipment) -> Grounded - (Some malicious actor injecting ransomware -> Grounded)
  • Accujack 5y ago
    Yeah. Tesla is pretty much the apple computer of the electric vehicle world, and they've set a bad precedent for ownership of electric cars. I think if market forces are allowed to decide fairly (they won't be) that consumers will choose a vehicle they own and have the right to repair over a Tesla that's licensed and can be bricked remotely at any time.
  • zamfi 5y ago
    Vehicles are already far more regulated than smartphones, it's not a stretch to imagine that "turning off your car" for something like taking it to a non-authorized shop should be illegal. (Utilities, for example, can't turn off your heat in winter for nonpayment in many states.) That said, Deere's made a business of it, so what do I know?
  • natch 5y ago
    Except the post you said “This” to is wrong on almost all counts about how updates work. Updates are opt in.
• 01100011 5y ago
  > nobody in any large corporation knows exactly where I drive it every moment of the day You took off your license plate? https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/location-tracking/you-are-being-tracked https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/location-trac...
  • StanislavPetrov 5y ago
    No, but its amazing how easily it can get smeared with some mud.
    • Robotbeat 5y ago
      You can disable the radio in a Tesla.
• HWR_14 5y ago
  The zero-privacy is frightening. The ability to (technically and buried in the fine print) push an update that makes your car stop at every McDonalds or accidentally brick your 50k+ device is also frightening. Heck, yesterday or the day before there were (unconfirmed) stories on HN about an OTA Tesla update causing collisions. You can however retrofit your older truck with a more modern radio if you like. You can repair or upgrade a part of it (like a side panel) or just rip out the radio and install a new $200 dollar one that gets digital FM, Bluetooth and USB audio. Oh, that's another feature that doesn't exist in Teslas.
• zamfi 5y ago
  Do you avoid carrying your phone with you too, to avoid a large corporation with a known predilection for cooperating with law enforcement knowing where you are at all times? Honest question.
  • throwawayapples 5y ago
    It's easier to leave your phone at home or in a faraday bag than putting your vehicle in either. If your phone is part of your vehicle, it's pretty hard to go anywhere without them.
• nbzso 5y ago
  That's the reason why I postponed selling my Jaguar X308. When time comes I will convert it to electric without dependency of software-updates over the air, no trackers, and maximum privacy and style:)
  • rsj_hn 5y ago
    Excellent. The PEV revolution could open the way for a flourishing of unique autos that support privacy and maintainability. Or it could be a DRM locked down dystopia.
    • nbzso 5y ago
      >DRM locked down dystopia. Sadly, I expect this to happen. People don't care for privacy and data-hoarding, regulators are slow and will not draw the hard line quickly in hope to satisfy corporations or political donors. I just hope that conversion EV's will not be outlawed. I see a future in which the problems that we have with Apple's products (hard repairability, closed ecosystem) will slip into digitization in auto industry and SaaS will be everywhere.
• rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
  I'm never buying a cyber truck but fitting a motor and battery in my 99 Toyota pickup for 1/5 the money sounds appealing.
• secfirstmd 5y ago
  Do you also turn off your phone?
• sneak 5y ago
  I am told that Tesla can indeed build cars without transceivers, but they don't really advertise the option (and staff don't even always know it exists). There are many diplomats/officials/military that would never be able to buy or operate a Tesla if that weren't the case, I think. I've a preorder for a cybertruck and I intend to refuse delivery if they can't build me one without radios.