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I am in no way a mechanics/chassis expert but I have been involved in EV projects in the past and there is a substantial amount of design that goes into protect

I am in no way a mechanics/chassis expert but I have been involved in EV projects in the past and there is a substantial amount of design that goes into protecting EV batteries from impact or perfuration. I agree that it would be much more sustainable to convert our old fleet of cars into EV but unless someone brings forward a big leap in battery protection for these conversions, to me it still feels relatively unsafe when compared with a vehicle designed from the ground up as an EV.

jacquesm 5y ago
Agreed. A typical EV has thousands of cells and the way these are placed in the chassis and how the interconnects are done is a major safety aspect. You can't just toss a bunch of cells into an enclosure and call it a day, I suspect that for each and every car model you'd want to design a custom enclosure if you want do do this safely. I'm in the process of increasing the capacity of the battery of my e-bike more than fourfold and even that is not a simple job.
- zrail 5y ago
  I sort of suspect what will happen is small time manufacturers will come out with sealed battery packs designed for specific applications. I.e. I want to electrify my Supra, I'm gonna buy it from a shop that makes them specifically for my generation of Supra.
  - ehnto 5y ago
    I'm imagining the same thing, and I imagine we'll eventually have battery cell inter-operability standards for cars that make that even easier. In the past we didn't make it mandatory to have engines be easily swapped to other models of vehicle, but I think we're more conscious of re-usability and the long term lifecycle of vehicles and part of making sure that's efficient I feel is making sure I can take a battery pack from a crashed 2025 E-Supra nd put it in my 2032 E-Skyline.
ZeroGravitas 5y ago
Old vehicles are really unsafe before you even consider switching them to EV. Overall, I'm not sure what the outcome would be, could go either way depending on specific factors, but presumably for old cars, long distance travel is not the point of the exercise.
bri3d 5y ago
The idea here is definitely not fleet conversion - this looks to target the crate motor industry, which is really the realm of high-end "rod shops" who build one-off vehicles for monied buyers (DIY enthusiasts, by and large, buy and build junkyard engines, not crate motors). These vehicles already are generally built without an eye for safety or compliance with standards of any form, and very few are driven a significant number of miles after the conversion is complete, so I'm not sure this is a meaningful issue for this specific product.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  What is a crate motor (besides the obvious)?
  - bri3d 5y ago
    Pretty much the obvious - they are drop in engine swaps sold in a crate. These offer a somewhat straightforward way to upgrade a powertrain and often come with brand recognition (like the "Hellcrate"), certifications to a certain power level, pre-made engine control tuning, or sometimes even a warranty. However, in the internal combustion world, they generally represent a poor value compared to sourcing a used engine block and upgrading it with aftermarket parts. So they're by and large the domain of wealthy buyers who are usually paying a shop for a "build."
ortusdux 5y ago
Imagine being a first responder and going on a call to save someone from a DIY electric vehicle. EVs present an entirely different set of safety considerations, but at least the major brands have thought through these things and provide safety features, documentation, and training. I doubt the truck in the link has a guide like this: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2021_Model_S_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2021_Mod...
- CivBase 5y ago
  Is there any reason to believe a DIY EV conversion is any more dangerous than significant modifications to vehicles with traditional combustion engines?
  - Animats 5y ago
    Nobody knows where the battery disconnect is on some DIY car. Here's the first responder's manual for the Chevy Bolt.[1] Under the rear seat, which lifts up, there is a big emergency disconnect handle. Unlatch handle, pull handle up, pull out disconnect. NFPA has vehicle guides for first responders, and fire trucks presumably carry those in some form. [1] https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Training/AFV/Emergency-Response-Guides/Chevrolet/2022-Chevrolet-Bolt-EV_Emergency-Response-Guide_English.ashx https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Training/AFV/Emergency-Re...
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      In accidents that require the fire department, it seems not common that you could get to the rear seat with enough freedom of maneuver to follow that procedure. No doubt that's been considered, so what am I missing?
      - Animats 5y ago
        Most likely use: pull disconnect before winching wreckage onto flatbed. On Teslas, there's a marked place to cut the power cables, rather than a disconnect switch.
Griffinsauce 5y ago
I wonder if the emissions from battery fires are counted in EV impact calculations.
foxyv 5y ago
I think it's a risk that a lot of people are willing to take. 99% of the EVs on the road will probably be production models. These conversions will probably be safer than most of the junky, poorly maintained, farting gas cars driving around today anyways. I would speculate the problem with most conversions will be about increased mass, low quality suspension parts, and too small brakes. When gross vehicle weight goes up by 50% that will cause a TON of problems. I think this may be why pickup trucks are a good place to start.

jacquesm 5y ago

Agreed. A typical EV has thousands of cells and the way these are placed in the chassis and how the interconnects are done is a major safety aspect. You can't just toss a bunch of cells into an enclosure and call it a day, I suspect that for each and every car model you'd want to design a custom enclosure if you want do do this safely. I'm in the process of increasing the capacity of the battery of my e-bike more than fourfold and even that is not a simple job.

zrail 5y ago
I sort of suspect what will happen is small time manufacturers will come out with sealed battery packs designed for specific applications. I.e. I want to electrify my Supra, I'm gonna buy it from a shop that makes them specifically for my generation of Supra.
- ehnto 5y ago
  I'm imagining the same thing, and I imagine we'll eventually have battery cell inter-operability standards for cars that make that even easier. In the past we didn't make it mandatory to have engines be easily swapped to other models of vehicle, but I think we're more conscious of re-usability and the long term lifecycle of vehicles and part of making sure that's efficient I feel is making sure I can take a battery pack from a crashed 2025 E-Supra nd put it in my 2032 E-Skyline.

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

Old vehicles are really unsafe before you even consider switching them to EV. Overall, I'm not sure what the outcome would be, could go either way depending on specific factors, but presumably for old cars, long distance travel is not the point of the exercise.

bri3d 5y ago

The idea here is definitely not fleet conversion - this looks to target the crate motor industry, which is really the realm of high-end "rod shops" who build one-off vehicles for monied buyers (DIY enthusiasts, by and large, buy and build junkyard engines, not crate motors). These vehicles already are generally built without an eye for safety or compliance with standards of any form, and very few are driven a significant number of miles after the conversion is complete, so I'm not sure this is a meaningful issue for this specific product.

wolverine876 5y ago
What is a crate motor (besides the obvious)?
- bri3d 5y ago
  Pretty much the obvious - they are drop in engine swaps sold in a crate. These offer a somewhat straightforward way to upgrade a powertrain and often come with brand recognition (like the "Hellcrate"), certifications to a certain power level, pre-made engine control tuning, or sometimes even a warranty. However, in the internal combustion world, they generally represent a poor value compared to sourcing a used engine block and upgrading it with aftermarket parts. So they're by and large the domain of wealthy buyers who are usually paying a shop for a "build."

ortusdux 5y ago

Imagine being a first responder and going on a call to save someone from a DIY electric vehicle. EVs present an entirely different set of safety considerations, but at least the major brands have thought through these things and provide safety features, documentation, and training. I doubt the truck in the link has a guide like this: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2021_Model_S_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2021_Mod...

CivBase 5y ago
Is there any reason to believe a DIY EV conversion is any more dangerous than significant modifications to vehicles with traditional combustion engines?
- Animats 5y ago
  Nobody knows where the battery disconnect is on some DIY car. Here's the first responder's manual for the Chevy Bolt.[1] Under the rear seat, which lifts up, there is a big emergency disconnect handle. Unlatch handle, pull handle up, pull out disconnect. NFPA has vehicle guides for first responders, and fire trucks presumably carry those in some form. [1] https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Training/AFV/Emergency-Response-Guides/Chevrolet/2022-Chevrolet-Bolt-EV_Emergency-Response-Guide_English.ashx https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/Training/AFV/Emergency-Re...
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    In accidents that require the fire department, it seems not common that you could get to the rear seat with enough freedom of maneuver to follow that procedure. No doubt that's been considered, so what am I missing?
    - Animats 5y ago
      Most likely use: pull disconnect before winching wreckage onto flatbed. On Teslas, there's a marked place to cut the power cables, rather than a disconnect switch.

Griffinsauce 5y ago

I wonder if the emissions from battery fires are counted in EV impact calculations.

foxyv 5y ago

I think it's a risk that a lot of people are willing to take. 99% of the EVs on the road will probably be production models. These conversions will probably be safer than most of the junky, poorly maintained, farting gas cars driving around today anyways. I would speculate the problem with most conversions will be about increased mass, low quality suspension parts, and too small brakes. When gross vehicle weight goes up by 50% that will cause a TON of problems. I think this may be why pickup trucks are a good place to start.