4 ms·

That's absolutely micromanaging and negative. The goal of school isn't just to pass the tests. If a kid fails to revise for a test, but it doesn't matter becau

That's absolutely micromanaging and negative. The goal of school isn't just to pass the tests. If a kid fails to revise for a test, but it doesn't matter because their parent will just look up the schedule and force them to revise, then they learn nothing beyond what's in the test. If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise through their own motivation, and that's a far more valuable skill than anything that might actually be in the test.

wonderwonder 5y ago
Thanks for the feedback on my parenting style Diggsey, I will be on the lookout for a visit from child services for the terrible crime of paying attention to my kids results at school, making sure they do their homework and sitting down and studying with them for their tests. I only hope they can forgive me when they are older.
- azinman2 5y ago
  I’ve learned that once you have dogs or children, everyone else seems to have a very important opinion on what you should do with your own, all related services, etc.
mattbee 5y ago
If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise Hahaha no. Have you met an 8 year old? Homo economicus they are not.
deltarholamda 5y ago
>That's absolutely micromanaging and negative Not really. Schooling is largely targeted towards the great masses in the middle of the Bell curve. These kids will need help, prodding, and other forms of encouragement in order to keep their basic schoolwork up. There are a smaller number of kids on the left and right tails that will, for the former, never make any effort; and for the latter, will require nothing other than support. That's just the way things are, I didn't make it that way, and there is nearly nothing that can be done to change it, and recognizing that fact will do more for most children than trying to pretend it doesn't exist. The mass of kids who need the aid of their parents are helped when the parents can follow along. I have to use a system similar to the broken Swedish one for my kids. It's a mishmash of various systems, and sometimes teachers just give up and use something else, or use a less appropriate method (like a shared Google doc or similar). Keeping up with simple things like "when is the next math test" is a real chore. While it would be great to be able to instill "initiative" into the souls of kids, it's unlikely to work. Unless you happen to know of a magick elixir that can do so, in which case there are a crapload of adults who could use a dose of this wizardry. It helps to not romanticize children. Kids are dumb. Even the smart ones. They have little life experience, and their brains are still wired in such a way that they struggle to see consequences. Most of schooling is just a grind to slowly teach them enough basics that they can operate relatively efficiently. Left to their own devices, they will play games, eat candy, and believe that they will make a living as a Twitch streamer or something equally ridiculous.
renewiltord 5y ago
Interesting strategy. How have your kids performed under it?
- watwut 5y ago
  Not him, but generally to large extend I have that strategy and kids do well. Both have good grades and are motivated. Obvious caveat is that if their grades were not good, I would get involved more. When their grades fallen a bit, I was there telling them that they need to learn, analyzing test with them and so on and blah blah. When homework was not done, I got involved for a while until the kid got into habit of doing it. Other obvious caveat is that when they ask for help, I always come in to help. The thing is, hands off approach really works and motivates kids - but it still requires attention and correction. And it does not work with all kids at all ages. Most people remember 15 years old self and assume kids all ages are as mature as they remember themselves. Meanwhile, most 6 years old are much less developed.
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    How did you know the homework wasn’t done?
    - watwut 5y ago
      When homework is not done, teacher sends the email. Or gave the kid black point and then the kid was unhappy about it and told me. If it did not, that teacher would also send mail, but after like 2-3 points within short period (don't know the exact rules). The other option is to ask in the evening "have you done homework". One of my kids would never lie and other only rarely, so it worked. To add to it, old system was not freedom. One feature of old "parents know only what kids tell them" system was that many parents learned about issues only when inevitable end of semester report/grades came. At that point, issues grew large. Even worst, parents were surprised and shocked, tended to react badly, punish the kid , yell, beat them etc. I remember reading about flux of kids running away each time reports come.
      - 5y ago
true_religion 5y ago
You're saying that the negative results of failing a test should come from the school and not the parent. I don't see why this is true. A school will grade a student down, but often kids will simply just not care about that unless there's impetus to do so from their peer group or people they rely on as a role models (e.g. parents). Also, when talking about kids... I think it's useful to clarify what age group you think a particular standard applies to. Kindergarteners need more parent care and management than secondary schoolers. It's more okay for a 6 year old to fail a test, than a 17 year old prepping for university. The stakes are different, and the mental abilities of the child are different. What is reasonable for one is not necessarily reasonable for another.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
losvedir 5y ago
FYI in English "revise" means something like "edit". You probably meant "review". I know in Spanish "revisar" can mean to review, so that caught my eye, and thought you might be tricked by a false cognate.
- jacobolus 5y ago
  British English "revise" = American English "study".
  - losvedir 5y ago
    Oh, TIL, thanks!
- koilke 5y ago
  Perhaps British English? (US review) to study again something you have already learned, in preparation for an exam: We're revising (algebra) for the test tomorrow. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ja/dictionary/english/revise https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ja/dictionary/english/revis...
_carbyau_ 5y ago
I see you and GP as arguing slightly different points. I don't want an itinerary app. I don't want to know the schedule/homework directly. But I will absolutely ask my kid if they know, and make the point that they should know, and work with them to remediate that if required. And as they learn I will get to step back a bit at a time and let them go for it.

wonderwonder 5y ago

Thanks for the feedback on my parenting style Diggsey, I will be on the lookout for a visit from child services for the terrible crime of paying attention to my kids results at school, making sure they do their homework and sitting down and studying with them for their tests. I only hope they can forgive me when they are older.

azinman2 5y ago
I’ve learned that once you have dogs or children, everyone else seems to have a very important opinion on what you should do with your own, all related services, etc.

mattbee 5y ago

If they fail to revise and as a result do badly at the test, then next time they might actually take the initiative and revise Hahaha no. Have you met an 8 year old? Homo economicus they are not.

deltarholamda 5y ago

>That's absolutely micromanaging and negative Not really. Schooling is largely targeted towards the great masses in the middle of the Bell curve. These kids will need help, prodding, and other forms of encouragement in order to keep their basic schoolwork up. There are a smaller number of kids on the left and right tails that will, for the former, never make any effort; and for the latter, will require nothing other than support. That's just the way things are, I didn't make it that way, and there is nearly nothing that can be done to change it, and recognizing that fact will do more for most children than trying to pretend it doesn't exist. The mass of kids who need the aid of their parents are helped when the parents can follow along. I have to use a system similar to the broken Swedish one for my kids. It's a mishmash of various systems, and sometimes teachers just give up and use something else, or use a less appropriate method (like a shared Google doc or similar). Keeping up with simple things like "when is the next math test" is a real chore. While it would be great to be able to instill "initiative" into the souls of kids, it's unlikely to work. Unless you happen to know of a magick elixir that can do so, in which case there are a crapload of adults who could use a dose of this wizardry. It helps to not romanticize children. Kids are dumb. Even the smart ones. They have little life experience, and their brains are still wired in such a way that they struggle to see consequences. Most of schooling is just a grind to slowly teach them enough basics that they can operate relatively efficiently. Left to their own devices, they will play games, eat candy, and believe that they will make a living as a Twitch streamer or something equally ridiculous.

renewiltord 5y ago

Interesting strategy. How have your kids performed under it?

watwut 5y ago
Not him, but generally to large extend I have that strategy and kids do well. Both have good grades and are motivated. Obvious caveat is that if their grades were not good, I would get involved more. When their grades fallen a bit, I was there telling them that they need to learn, analyzing test with them and so on and blah blah. When homework was not done, I got involved for a while until the kid got into habit of doing it. Other obvious caveat is that when they ask for help, I always come in to help. The thing is, hands off approach really works and motivates kids - but it still requires attention and correction. And it does not work with all kids at all ages. Most people remember 15 years old self and assume kids all ages are as mature as they remember themselves. Meanwhile, most 6 years old are much less developed.
- renewiltord 5y ago
  How did you know the homework wasn’t done?
  - watwut 5y ago
    When homework is not done, teacher sends the email. Or gave the kid black point and then the kid was unhappy about it and told me. If it did not, that teacher would also send mail, but after like 2-3 points within short period (don't know the exact rules). The other option is to ask in the evening "have you done homework". One of my kids would never lie and other only rarely, so it worked. To add to it, old system was not freedom. One feature of old "parents know only what kids tell them" system was that many parents learned about issues only when inevitable end of semester report/grades came. At that point, issues grew large. Even worst, parents were surprised and shocked, tended to react badly, punish the kid , yell, beat them etc. I remember reading about flux of kids running away each time reports come.
    - 5y ago

true_religion 5y ago

You're saying that the negative results of failing a test should come from the school and not the parent. I don't see why this is true. A school will grade a student down, but often kids will simply just not care about that unless there's impetus to do so from their peer group or people they rely on as a role models (e.g. parents). Also, when talking about kids... I think it's useful to clarify what age group you think a particular standard applies to. Kindergarteners need more parent care and management than secondary schoolers. It's more okay for a 6 year old to fail a test, than a 17 year old prepping for university. The stakes are different, and the mental abilities of the child are different. What is reasonable for one is not necessarily reasonable for another.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

losvedir 5y ago

FYI in English "revise" means something like "edit". You probably meant "review". I know in Spanish "revisar" can mean to review, so that caught my eye, and thought you might be tricked by a false cognate.

jacobolus 5y ago
British English "revise" = American English "study".
- losvedir 5y ago
  Oh, TIL, thanks!
koilke 5y ago
Perhaps British English? (US review) to study again something you have already learned, in preparation for an exam: We're revising (algebra) for the test tomorrow. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ja/dictionary/english/revise https://dictionary.cambridge.org/ja/dictionary/english/revis...

_carbyau_ 5y ago

I see you and GP as arguing slightly different points. I don't want an itinerary app. I don't want to know the schedule/homework directly. But I will absolutely ask my kid if they know, and make the point that they should know, and work with them to remediate that if required. And as they learn I will get to step back a bit at a time and let them go for it.