7 ms·

I also think death penalty by lethal injection should be illegal. It is regularly botched, leaving the victim to suffocate or experience a fatal heart attack fo

I also think death penalty by lethal injection should be illegal. It is regularly botched, leaving the victim to suffocate or experience a fatal heart attack for minutes without pain killers while also paralyzed. Seems fairly cruel and unusual to paralyze someone and then suffocate them while leaving them conscious. There’s also something deeply unseemly about a method of execution that is quite painful but designed to make the executioners feel better about what they’re doing. If we’re going to execute people it should be via firing squad, which is honest about what is happening and much less painful for the condemned. If we’re not comfortable with that, well then maybe we shouldn’t be doing this at all then.

danpalmer 5y ago
I agree with the point you're making, but there are far more humane methods than firing squad. Firing squad causes trauma issues for those doing the firing, and could easily be botched as well. Asphyxiation by another gas such as helium is generally considered to be "better" as far as I understand – it creates a feeling of euphoria for the subject. This is not an endorsement of any method of execution, I'm strongly against the entire idea.
- themitigating 5y ago
  Not everyone has live rounds in a firing squad to reduce the trauma
  - spicybright 5y ago
    For clarification, they'll load some of the guns with blanks then give you a random gun with you knowing that. Still wouldn't ease my conscious if I was holding the gun, personally.
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      Right, but that's a feature and not a bug. You really don't want the state to be able to execute people without someone feeling morally culpable for it.
  - zepto 5y ago
    It’s obvious whether you are firing a blank or not.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Helium is absolutely more humane. I don't know exact details, but because of the chemical structure of helium, it binds to red blood blood cells without causing the body panic, like CO2 and others would. Your brain doesn't stay conscious too long without oxygen, so it's pretty quick once you start breathing it in.
  - lisper 5y ago
    Helium doesn't bind to anything. It just displaces the oxygen. Nitrogen does the same thing, and it's much easier to obtain. But being painless is not really the point. The fact that lethal injection is painful is a feature in the minds of those who advocate it.
    - ashtonkem 5y ago
      There are two things about Oxygen free environments. First, humans can't actually detect Oxygen. We can detect CO2, largely because the build up in our blood makes it more acidic, but we can't actually tell how much Oxygen is in the air or in our bodies. The negative feeling of holding your breath isn't caused by insufficient air, but the buildup of CO2 in your blood due to metabolism. As such, humans actually can't detect an oxygen free room, as long as it isn't full of CO2 (we'd notice that). Second, part of how we absorb gas is via the difference in gas pressure between our blood and the air. When the partial pressure of CO2 in our blood is higher than the air, it diffuses out, and when the partial pressure of O2 in the air is higher than our blood it tends to dissolve into solution. In an Oxygen free environment any O2 in our blood not already bound up by Hemoglobin rapidly diffuses away, robbing us of O2 faster than holding our breath and cell metabolism normally would, resulting in loss of consciousness very quickly. The combination of these is why it is advised you never enter an Oxygen free environment without a self contained breathing apparatus. Industrial reports are littered with tragic stories of multiple people entering an N2 or Halogen environment to rescue their friends, only to perish themselves.
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    People generally don't notice they're hypoxic. The panic of not being able to breathe is caused by the buildup of CO2 in the blood moving the pH down. Helium doesn't react to anything chemically without a shit ton of energy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
lisper 5y ago
> it should be via firing squad, which is honest about what is happening Why not hanging? Or beheading? Those seem pretty honest to me.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  Hangings get botched fairly often. The last execution at the Old Idaho Penitentiary, now a historical site in Boise, took 15 minutes to finish. Not really an improvement over lethal injection in that area. Beheading works, but requires a lot of specialized equipment and what not. Meanwhile a firing squad doesn't really require any special equipment and training above and beyond what the judicial system already has available.
  - lisper 5y ago
    > a firing squad doesn't really require any special equipment and training above and beyond what the judicial system already has available. But that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there were a market for guillotines they would be readily available too. They are not hard to make.
tomjen3 5y ago
I think the method of execution should depend on how much the victim suffered. Killed in their sleep or never noticed the bullet? Asfixiation with an inert gas. Abducted, raped, tortured and killed? Bring out the rack. But then I am also okay with the death penalty for rape, but SCOTUS has already ruled that one out. My main concern in making sure there was a fair trial and that the conviction was correct - replacing death with life in prison is not a substitute for a fair trail.

danpalmer 5y ago

I agree with the point you're making, but there are far more humane methods than firing squad. Firing squad causes trauma issues for those doing the firing, and could easily be botched as well. Asphyxiation by another gas such as helium is generally considered to be "better" as far as I understand – it creates a feeling of euphoria for the subject. This is not an endorsement of any method of execution, I'm strongly against the entire idea.

themitigating 5y ago
Not everyone has live rounds in a firing squad to reduce the trauma
- spicybright 5y ago
  For clarification, they'll load some of the guns with blanks then give you a random gun with you knowing that. Still wouldn't ease my conscious if I was holding the gun, personally.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    Right, but that's a feature and not a bug. You really don't want the state to be able to execute people without someone feeling morally culpable for it.
- zepto 5y ago
  It’s obvious whether you are firing a blank or not.
spicybright 5y ago
Helium is absolutely more humane. I don't know exact details, but because of the chemical structure of helium, it binds to red blood blood cells without causing the body panic, like CO2 and others would. Your brain doesn't stay conscious too long without oxygen, so it's pretty quick once you start breathing it in.
- lisper 5y ago
  Helium doesn't bind to anything. It just displaces the oxygen. Nitrogen does the same thing, and it's much easier to obtain. But being painless is not really the point. The fact that lethal injection is painful is a feature in the minds of those who advocate it.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    There are two things about Oxygen free environments. First, humans can't actually detect Oxygen. We can detect CO2, largely because the build up in our blood makes it more acidic, but we can't actually tell how much Oxygen is in the air or in our bodies. The negative feeling of holding your breath isn't caused by insufficient air, but the buildup of CO2 in your blood due to metabolism. As such, humans actually can't detect an oxygen free room, as long as it isn't full of CO2 (we'd notice that). Second, part of how we absorb gas is via the difference in gas pressure between our blood and the air. When the partial pressure of CO2 in our blood is higher than the air, it diffuses out, and when the partial pressure of O2 in the air is higher than our blood it tends to dissolve into solution. In an Oxygen free environment any O2 in our blood not already bound up by Hemoglobin rapidly diffuses away, robbing us of O2 faster than holding our breath and cell metabolism normally would, resulting in loss of consciousness very quickly. The combination of these is why it is advised you never enter an Oxygen free environment without a self contained breathing apparatus. Industrial reports are littered with tragic stories of multiple people entering an N2 or Halogen environment to rescue their friends, only to perish themselves.
- meepmorp 5y ago
  People generally don't notice they're hypoxic. The panic of not being able to breathe is caused by the buildup of CO2 in the blood moving the pH down. Helium doesn't react to anything chemically without a shit ton of energy.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

lisper 5y ago

> it should be via firing squad, which is honest about what is happening Why not hanging? Or beheading? Those seem pretty honest to me.

ashtonkem 5y ago
Hangings get botched fairly often. The last execution at the Old Idaho Penitentiary, now a historical site in Boise, took 15 minutes to finish. Not really an improvement over lethal injection in that area. Beheading works, but requires a lot of specialized equipment and what not. Meanwhile a firing squad doesn't really require any special equipment and training above and beyond what the judicial system already has available.
- lisper 5y ago
  > a firing squad doesn't really require any special equipment and training above and beyond what the judicial system already has available. But that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If there were a market for guillotines they would be readily available too. They are not hard to make.

tomjen3 5y ago

I think the method of execution should depend on how much the victim suffered. Killed in their sleep or never noticed the bullet? Asfixiation with an inert gas. Abducted, raped, tortured and killed? Bring out the rack. But then I am also okay with the death penalty for rape, but SCOTUS has already ruled that one out. My main concern in making sure there was a fair trial and that the conviction was correct - replacing death with life in prison is not a substitute for a fair trail.