7 ms·

I would ask the opposite question -- why is that an important number to conceal? (Please no "it's none of your business" replies, that doesn't really answer the

by Frondo 5y ago

I would ask the opposite question -- why is that an important number to conceal? (Please no "it's none of your business" replies, that doesn't really answer the question and it's not an interesting direction to go.)

ghaff 5y ago
At some point though, not making personal information public does come down to societal norms of what is other people's business. While the cost/benefit tradeoffs may be different, I could argue that making individual health records public probably has some benefits with respect to understanding health and health outcomes at a more granular level than aggregated data. (Which also present issues with de-anonymization anyway.)
hcrean 5y ago
There is an "ignorance is bliss" argument and a "if you don't know what is on offer, you can't ask for it" argument. The whole privacy system is geared towards supporting employers and people in the upper echelons of salary.
- ghaff 5y ago
  And yet, at least in the US, it's probably the people in the highest echelons of salary whose salaries are most public (in addition to public sector employees).
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Highest echelons of society don't make their money from salaries. But they are interested in manipulating your salary and making its in your interest to hide it
ftrobro 5y ago
It puts a target on the back of anyone that earns a lot of money but doesn't live in a high security bunker. Sometimes foreign crminals make a quick tour in Sweden, rob a couple of rich people in their homes and then get out of the country in the same day, with no risk of ever being caught. Public records and GPS navigation make this all too easy. Senior citizens are also targeted by criminals in Sweden, because the age and address of almost all citizens is publicly available. They might be visited by a couple who ask for a glass of water or whatever, and then one of the visitors distract the senior citizen while the other searches the place for jewelry.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  "Puts a target on the back of anyone that earns a lot of money but doesn't live in a high security bunker" I find this unconvincing - firstly, most crime happens in poor neighbourhoods. Secondly, you don't need to know someone's salary to tell apart a rich neighbourhood or house from a poor one. Thirdly, high salary does not mean you have anything to steal, my friend earns a lot but all him money is in mortgage, stocks or in the bank. All you could steal from his house is a laptop. Lastly, even if everything you said was true, it doesn't mean we should cower and hide, it means police are not doing their job well enough.
  - ftrobro 5y ago
    > most crime happens in poor neighbourhoods That's kind of my point. Let's say you live in a poor neighborhood but do some stock trading and suddenly make a large profit. That will be shown in public records, it's not just salaries that are public. You now have a target on your back. Criminals will not come to your house looking for a laptop, they will come looking for you, putting a gun to your head telling you to transfer your assets to them. > it means police are not doing their job well enough Principles are nice, but pragmatism is better at keeping you alive...
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      "They will come looking for you, putting a gun to your head telling you to transfer your assets to them" You talk about pragmatism but give a crime scenario out of Hollywood movies. Do you mean bank transfer? Am I transferring a million dollars into an official bank account registered in the criminal's real name? Do you mean I should sign a deed giving them possesion of my house, and that would hold up in court? Any large transfer will trigger a multi-day KYC and security process at the bank. Are they going to hold me hostage for weeks? There is a much easier crime that pays better and does not involve risk of death and leaving your fibgerprints all over: stealing a car, an expensive car. That's why there are more car thefts than home robberies.
      - 5y ago

by Frondo 5y ago

ghaff 5y ago

At some point though, not making personal information public does come down to societal norms of what is other people's business. While the cost/benefit tradeoffs may be different, I could argue that making individual health records public probably has some benefits with respect to understanding health and health outcomes at a more granular level than aggregated data. (Which also present issues with de-anonymization anyway.)

hcrean 5y ago

There is an "ignorance is bliss" argument and a "if you don't know what is on offer, you can't ask for it" argument. The whole privacy system is geared towards supporting employers and people in the upper echelons of salary.

ghaff 5y ago
And yet, at least in the US, it's probably the people in the highest echelons of salary whose salaries are most public (in addition to public sector employees).
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  Highest echelons of society don't make their money from salaries. But they are interested in manipulating your salary and making its in your interest to hide it

ftrobro 5y ago

It puts a target on the back of anyone that earns a lot of money but doesn't live in a high security bunker. Sometimes foreign crminals make a quick tour in Sweden, rob a couple of rich people in their homes and then get out of the country in the same day, with no risk of ever being caught. Public records and GPS navigation make this all too easy. Senior citizens are also targeted by criminals in Sweden, because the age and address of almost all citizens is publicly available. They might be visited by a couple who ask for a glass of water or whatever, and then one of the visitors distract the senior citizen while the other searches the place for jewelry.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Puts a target on the back of anyone that earns a lot of money but doesn't live in a high security bunker" I find this unconvincing - firstly, most crime happens in poor neighbourhoods. Secondly, you don't need to know someone's salary to tell apart a rich neighbourhood or house from a poor one. Thirdly, high salary does not mean you have anything to steal, my friend earns a lot but all him money is in mortgage, stocks or in the bank. All you could steal from his house is a laptop. Lastly, even if everything you said was true, it doesn't mean we should cower and hide, it means police are not doing their job well enough.
- ftrobro 5y ago
  > most crime happens in poor neighbourhoods That's kind of my point. Let's say you live in a poor neighborhood but do some stock trading and suddenly make a large profit. That will be shown in public records, it's not just salaries that are public. You now have a target on your back. Criminals will not come to your house looking for a laptop, they will come looking for you, putting a gun to your head telling you to transfer your assets to them. > it means police are not doing their job well enough Principles are nice, but pragmatism is better at keeping you alive...
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    "They will come looking for you, putting a gun to your head telling you to transfer your assets to them" You talk about pragmatism but give a crime scenario out of Hollywood movies. Do you mean bank transfer? Am I transferring a million dollars into an official bank account registered in the criminal's real name? Do you mean I should sign a deed giving them possesion of my house, and that would hold up in court? Any large transfer will trigger a multi-day KYC and security process at the bank. Are they going to hold me hostage for weeks? There is a much easier crime that pays better and does not involve risk of death and leaving your fibgerprints all over: stealing a car, an expensive car. That's why there are more car thefts than home robberies.
    - 5y ago