10 ms·

Funny that they were so concerned about GDPR violations given that in Sweden everyone's address/job/phone/salary is public and easily accessible. I like it that

Funny that they were so concerned about GDPR violations given that in Sweden everyone's address/job/phone/salary is public and easily accessible. I like it that every time a foreigner joins my company (I live in Sweden) it's a matter of time before they post a message in our Stockholm channel saying "guys... what the hell is this website and why am I in it?". Then the swedes mention that they see nothing wrong with it while the foreigners playfully call them crazy. Every single time.

wonderwonder 5y ago
I think the complaint was more of a way for the state to save face. Much like with the recent incident in the US where the governor asked the police to investigate a reporter that revealed the state website was embedding social security numbers in the application. Reporter was accused of hacking even though it was clearly an issue with the site.
merpnderp 5y ago
Salary? How could that being public serve the public's interest? As a privacy advocate that does pique my curiosity.
- cerved 5y ago
  not salary, taxable income, which got most people is pretty much their salary
- AndrewDucker 5y ago
  It's considered necessary for a just society that if people are going to earn massive salaries that people are aware of it. Salary transparency allows people to negotiate with all the facts.
- Retric 5y ago
  Information asymmetry distorts markets, and the job market is really important not just for the people involved but overall economic efficiency.
- quartz 5y ago
  In most cases salary is private more due to social customs and corporate interests than privacy concerns. If EVERYONES salary is public, I could see it serving the public interest in preventing wage disparity and discrimination. Even in the US you can look up the salary of many people (public university employees come to mind). One of the most important moments early in my career was learning the salary of the people above me. It let me evaluate the upside of climbing that ladder for the next 5-10 years and ultimately helped me make a critical decision to leave and take a higher risk role where the upside was greater.
- Frondo 5y ago
  I would ask the opposite question -- why is that an important number to conceal? (Please no "it's none of your business" replies, that doesn't really answer the question and it's not an interesting direction to go.)
  - ghaff 5y ago
    At some point though, not making personal information public does come down to societal norms of what is other people's business. While the cost/benefit tradeoffs may be different, I could argue that making individual health records public probably has some benefits with respect to understanding health and health outcomes at a more granular level than aggregated data. (Which also present issues with de-anonymization anyway.)
  - hcrean 5y ago
    There is an "ignorance is bliss" argument and a "if you don't know what is on offer, you can't ask for it" argument. The whole privacy system is geared towards supporting employers and people in the upper echelons of salary.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      And yet, at least in the US, it's probably the people in the highest echelons of salary whose salaries are most public (in addition to public sector employees).
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        Highest echelons of society don't make their money from salaries. But they are interested in manipulating your salary and making its in your interest to hide it
  - ftrobro 5y ago
    It puts a target on the back of anyone that earns a lot of money but doesn't live in a high security bunker. Sometimes foreign crminals make a quick tour in Sweden, rob a couple of rich people in their homes and then get out of the country in the same day, with no risk of ever being caught. Public records and GPS navigation make this all too easy. Senior citizens are also targeted by criminals in Sweden, because the age and address of almost all citizens is publicly available. They might be visited by a couple who ask for a glass of water or whatever, and then one of the visitors distract the senior citizen while the other searches the place for jewelry.
- kalleboo 5y ago
  I don't think it's technically salary but tax information. From which it's easy to reverse-engineer salary (since for most people income==salary) It could be argued that transparency in taxes collected is a positive thing for a society.
arp242 5y ago
Wait, who publishes this information, and why? Address/phone is somewhat standard phonebook stuff (or at least, used to be; less so now I guess) but job and salary?!
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  And in the US the value of real property you own is public record! Do you think whatever your locality does is the obvious correct standard?
- Loughla 5y ago
  In the US, in almost every publicly funded position, your job, salary and benefits are available for everyone to see. I am employed by a publicly funded institution now, and everything I earn is available for consumption, along with extra-duty pay, benefits, and historical data. Why would it be crazy for that to be available for everyone? I genuinely don't get what the big idea is.
  - arp242 5y ago
    For publicly funded positions salary is just a matter of transparent government. Address and phone? Probably not so much. However, the previous post talked about "everyone" and "company", not publicly funded positions.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      If you own a home in the US, your address is public record at least unless you take steps through shell companies etc. to hide it. And while it's less relevant with the decline of land lines, so was your phone number unless you paid to make it unlisted.
    - kalleboo 5y ago
      It could be argued that the basis of taxes paid are also a matter of transparent government
  - ghaff 5y ago
silicon2401 5y ago
Places like Sweden, Japan, Taiwan are often touted as examples of why XYZ works. However people often fail to mention that these places are, relative to many countries like the US, extremely homogenous in culture and ethnicity. Certain things that work in those countries will fall apart when attempted in a more diverse country.
- nivenkos 5y ago
  What does this have to do with ethnicity?
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    People trust those that look more like them. It’s just human nature. It’s why people say all all white jury is racist when defendants are black, or why cops are racist. Putnam’s diversity study also confirmed it. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-diversity-create-distrust/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-diversity-cr... the authors hand save the data with the usual ham fisted white people are racist retort. Sociologists aren't respected because of authors like them who have no basis in reality. It isn’t the only factor; China does it through culture, or Sinofication. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization “Han Chinese” isn’t based on genetics it’s many different races that call themselves Han because they share culture. This is historically what happened in China and is now happening in Africa and South America.
    - silicon2401 5y ago
      > “Han Chinese” isn’t based on genetics it’s many different races that call themselves Han because they share culture. Not quite. Han Chinese is a specific ethnicity. But it is true that "Chinese” isn’t based on genetics, it’s many different races that call themselves "Chinese" because they share culture. Or to cover all cases, it's many different races that the Chinese government calls "Chinese" to push a facade of homogeneity, marginalize minority peoples like Uyghurs, and marginalize minority languages and cultures in China that aren't Han Chinese, though their current nationality is Chinese.

wonderwonder 5y ago

I think the complaint was more of a way for the state to save face. Much like with the recent incident in the US where the governor asked the police to investigate a reporter that revealed the state website was embedding social security numbers in the application. Reporter was accused of hacking even though it was clearly an issue with the site.

merpnderp 5y ago

Salary? How could that being public serve the public's interest? As a privacy advocate that does pique my curiosity.

cerved 5y ago
not salary, taxable income, which got most people is pretty much their salary
AndrewDucker 5y ago
It's considered necessary for a just society that if people are going to earn massive salaries that people are aware of it. Salary transparency allows people to negotiate with all the facts.
Retric 5y ago
Information asymmetry distorts markets, and the job market is really important not just for the people involved but overall economic efficiency.
quartz 5y ago
In most cases salary is private more due to social customs and corporate interests than privacy concerns. If EVERYONES salary is public, I could see it serving the public interest in preventing wage disparity and discrimination. Even in the US you can look up the salary of many people (public university employees come to mind). One of the most important moments early in my career was learning the salary of the people above me. It let me evaluate the upside of climbing that ladder for the next 5-10 years and ultimately helped me make a critical decision to leave and take a higher risk role where the upside was greater.
Frondo 5y ago
I would ask the opposite question -- why is that an important number to conceal? (Please no "it's none of your business" replies, that doesn't really answer the question and it's not an interesting direction to go.)
- ghaff 5y ago
  At some point though, not making personal information public does come down to societal norms of what is other people's business. While the cost/benefit tradeoffs may be different, I could argue that making individual health records public probably has some benefits with respect to understanding health and health outcomes at a more granular level than aggregated data. (Which also present issues with de-anonymization anyway.)
- hcrean 5y ago
  There is an "ignorance is bliss" argument and a "if you don't know what is on offer, you can't ask for it" argument. The whole privacy system is geared towards supporting employers and people in the upper echelons of salary.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    And yet, at least in the US, it's probably the people in the highest echelons of salary whose salaries are most public (in addition to public sector employees).
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Highest echelons of society don't make their money from salaries. But they are interested in manipulating your salary and making its in your interest to hide it
- ftrobro 5y ago
  It puts a target on the back of anyone that earns a lot of money but doesn't live in a high security bunker. Sometimes foreign crminals make a quick tour in Sweden, rob a couple of rich people in their homes and then get out of the country in the same day, with no risk of ever being caught. Public records and GPS navigation make this all too easy. Senior citizens are also targeted by criminals in Sweden, because the age and address of almost all citizens is publicly available. They might be visited by a couple who ask for a glass of water or whatever, and then one of the visitors distract the senior citizen while the other searches the place for jewelry.
kalleboo 5y ago
I don't think it's technically salary but tax information. From which it's easy to reverse-engineer salary (since for most people income==salary) It could be argued that transparency in taxes collected is a positive thing for a society.

arp242 5y ago

Wait, who publishes this information, and why? Address/phone is somewhat standard phonebook stuff (or at least, used to be; less so now I guess) but job and salary?!

alisonkisk 5y ago
And in the US the value of real property you own is public record! Do you think whatever your locality does is the obvious correct standard?
Loughla 5y ago
In the US, in almost every publicly funded position, your job, salary and benefits are available for everyone to see. I am employed by a publicly funded institution now, and everything I earn is available for consumption, along with extra-duty pay, benefits, and historical data. Why would it be crazy for that to be available for everyone? I genuinely don't get what the big idea is.
- arp242 5y ago
  For publicly funded positions salary is just a matter of transparent government. Address and phone? Probably not so much. However, the previous post talked about "everyone" and "company", not publicly funded positions.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    If you own a home in the US, your address is public record at least unless you take steps through shell companies etc. to hide it. And while it's less relevant with the decline of land lines, so was your phone number unless you paid to make it unlisted.
  - kalleboo 5y ago
    It could be argued that the basis of taxes paid are also a matter of transparent government
- ghaff 5y ago

silicon2401 5y ago

Places like Sweden, Japan, Taiwan are often touted as examples of why XYZ works. However people often fail to mention that these places are, relative to many countries like the US, extremely homogenous in culture and ethnicity. Certain things that work in those countries will fall apart when attempted in a more diverse country.

nivenkos 5y ago
What does this have to do with ethnicity?
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  People trust those that look more like them. It’s just human nature. It’s why people say all all white jury is racist when defendants are black, or why cops are racist. Putnam’s diversity study also confirmed it. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-diversity-create-distrust/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-diversity-cr... the authors hand save the data with the usual ham fisted white people are racist retort. Sociologists aren't respected because of authors like them who have no basis in reality. It isn’t the only factor; China does it through culture, or Sinofication. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization “Han Chinese” isn’t based on genetics it’s many different races that call themselves Han because they share culture. This is historically what happened in China and is now happening in Africa and South America.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    > “Han Chinese” isn’t based on genetics it’s many different races that call themselves Han because they share culture. Not quite. Han Chinese is a specific ethnicity. But it is true that "Chinese” isn’t based on genetics, it’s many different races that call themselves "Chinese" because they share culture. Or to cover all cases, it's many different races that the Chinese government calls "Chinese" to push a facade of homogeneity, marginalize minority peoples like Uyghurs, and marginalize minority languages and cultures in China that aren't Han Chinese, though their current nationality is Chinese.