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Ask HN: What is the best privacy-focused video doorbell?
So the family have decided they "need" a video doorbell... with calls for a Ring Doorbell. I don't want more Amazon/tracking/spyware installed so looking for the best privacy focussed doorbell (Ideally with open APIs).
- angelzen 5y agohttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Newhouse-Hardware-All-Purpose-Wired-Traditional-Doorbell-Chime-APB1 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Newhouse-Hardware-All-Purpose-Wi...
- txsoftwaredev 5y agoI'm not even sure it matters at this point. Most houses in my neighborhood have a doorbell or some kind of camera. What I use doesn't matter since all the other houses are recording me. You might as well just buy the one that has the price and features you need.
- agustif 5y agoWould you like to tinker a pi? googling pi doorbell brings stuff like this https://makezine.com/projects/remote-camera-doorbell-and-smart-lock-with-raspberry-pi/ https://makezine.com/projects/remote-camera-doorbell-and-sma... Logitech would also be much better than amazon at least and provider a better plug and play experience https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/cameras/circle-view-video-doorbell.html https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/cameras/circle-view-...
- trutannus 5y agoI was going to suggest the same thing. If you build out the device yourself, the privacy is as close to perfect as you can get. Take it up a step by having a dedicated hidden and non-internet connected WiFi network for your doorbell/security systems. A few disks connected to the Pi and one of their cameras should be sufficient. I'm sure there's pre-built cases and button enclosures you could pick up. Bonus: You can build the device to your local privacy regulation. Where I am, doorbells in shared living spaces can't have audio recording, but good luck finding a decent doorbell that does not also record audio.
- Nextgrid 5y agoThere are SIP-based solutions, for example: https://www.voipon.co.uk/sip-door-entry-systems-c-1599_587.html https://www.voipon.co.uk/sip-door-entry-systems-c-1599_587.h... (no affiliation). The problem with those is that there's still no good open-source ecosystem around SIP. There are ad-hoc libraries that implement the low level protocol, but little when it comes to a full B2BUA to which you can then connect a SIP client. The closest to that is Asterisk but IMO it's far from user-friendly, has very poor & incomplete documentation, an arcane configuration language and is plagued by lots of legacy telecoms-specific crap (obscure protocols that are no longer used, etc) that the majority of users won't need. So there is SIP hardware, but then you just moved the problem elsewhere and now you need a user-friendly SIP server to run it.
- robcohen 5y agoI thought FREESwitch was the new hotness in PBX software? https://freeswitch.com/ https://freeswitch.com/
- jasonjayr 5y agoYou're not wrong regarding SIP, however, having spent time wrapping my head around it; a SIP video door bell, on a typical /24 residential home network, could simply direct-dial a single computer w/o a SIP server, running MicroSIP (on windows) or Linphone (On Linux). You'd probably have to disable DHCP. If you wanted to connect from multiple devices/computers, then the asterisk setup for that is not TOO bad, it would be a few entries to define the endpoints + passwords, and another few lines to make a call from one ring all the others.
- Nextgrid 5y agoI was thinking more along the lines of replicating the Ring (or other proprietary cloud-based doorbell), which means even if you go through all the effort of configuring Asterisk and have a static IP you'll be exposing Asterisk to the internet which I don't feel too comfortable considering it's a huge pile of legacy C code, or otherwise you'll need to put a VPN gateway in front (and have the mobile client VPN into it) which is even more work.
- chewmieser 5y agoI have August, which is "better" but not offline either. Was a good compromise for me.
- moepstar 5y agoI think Robin ProLine should fit the bill: https://www.robintele.com/en/products/video-intercoms.html https://www.robintele.com/en/products/video-intercoms.html
- zevv 5y agoIt should, as it's a totally off-cloud product: supports SIP and RTSP and records video local to SD card. No online services, no monthly payments.
- czbond 5y agoWhile commenting - any that are AppleKit or "Home Assistant" compatible? I've been looking for the same OP - thanks for asking.
- cr3ative 5y agoI use the Netatmo Video Doorbell for their Homekit integration. Doesn't support HKSV yet but it's due "soon".
- czbond 5y agoThank you - HomeKit integration is great.
- sparkywolf 5y agoI don't have one myself but I do like Eufy. I have a few security cameras by them and they store everything locally + still work fine when I block them from communicating outside the local network
- zevv 5y agohttps://www.robin.nl/en/shop/proline-homekit.html https://www.robin.nl/en/shop/proline-homekit.html
- czbond 5y agoThank you so much.
- 5y ago
- tomchuk 5y agoI’ve been very happy with Ubiquiti’s Unifi Protect doorbell. It does mean having to buy into their whole ecosystem, but I was already most of the way there when I added the doorbell and a couple 4k cameras. Recording to a local device does mean you have to consider things like power/network outages if you want remote access and recording to continue during those events. I’ve got all my network gear and the doorbell transformer running off a UPS to cover the time between a power outage and my whole-home generator kicking in. I’ve also got an LTE modem to fail over to on my Dream Machine Pro (Router/network controller/video storage).
- ramraj07 5y agoDid you just lay out a clear blueprint of your security system in the internet? Hope you agree that s not a good idea.
- cr3ative 5y agoSecurity through obscurity hasn't been a good idea for a while either, to be fair
- VRay 5y agoAt least he has one.. you could jimmy open my front door and walk in without any electronics recording you Full disclosure though, if you do that while my wife and kid are home I will stab you
- tomchuk 5y agoI’ve divulged my camera & network setup. Sure, you could use that info to sneak up to my house, turn the gas off to my generator, cut the power, wait 3h for the batteries in my UPS to run out…. Or you could walk up and smash a window wearing a balaclava.
- leesalminen 5y agoJust convinced a neighbor to ditch Ring for the UniFi Protect ecosystem. They’ve been happy with it. I’m also happy to not have my neighbor donate my MAC addresses, face and voice to Amazon inadvertently.
- fy20 5y agoGira have a range of video intercoms and supporting hardware. They are a German company, so everything works offline by default. Not cheap, but it's also not going to be made obsolete in 3 years time. I believe they use SIP under the hood. https://www.gira.de/produkte/tuersprechanlagen/tuersprechanlage-inneneinheit/gira-wohnungsstation-video-ap-7 https://www.gira.de/produkte/tuersprechanlagen/tuersprechanl...
- paulfurtado 5y agoProblem with Gira is I've never actually figured out how to purchase it as a consumer. The products look amazing, but it seems impossible to buy in the US.
- fy20 5y agoI think that's simply because they don't make 120V models, here in Europe it's easy to find a retailer to buy online.
- varispeed 5y agoI have checked all the links so far and none of the manufacturers show where these products are made. I think when it comes to security that is quite crucial information. Why do they hide where they make these products?
- benmanns 5y agoI don't have experience with video doorbells, but a pattern I use to find IoT devices is look at the Home Assistant integrations[1] for moderately open APIs, then drill down into each product to find one with "Local Polling" or "Local Push" for the classification, which means you can communicate with the device over LAN instead of only via cloud. More on that here[2]. Currently the only listed doorbell with a local option is DoorBird[3]. Note it's not exhaustive as I know there's at least one product I have that could be Local Polling but the current implementation is Cloud Polling. [1]: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/#doorbell https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/#doorbell [2]: https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-the-internet-of-things/#classifiers https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th... [3]: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/doorbird/ https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/doorbird/
- gwbas1c 5y ago> the family have decided Think very carefully here. If you want a video doorbell, your personal requirements are very different from the requirements that your family has. I'm very happy with my Nest doorbell, but to be quite honest, the only "privacy" thing I did was tell all my neighbors who are within view of the camera. If / when there are concerns, I'll disconnect it. (Frankly, my neighbors just laughed and then put in video doorbells pointing at my house.) Assuming your family are average people who aren't excited about hacking and tinkering, it's not worth pushing a homegrown or niche solution on them unless it's brain-dead easy to use.
- immnn 5y agoRing is absolutely a shame, when it comes to privacy. Following, it comes with a monthly fee if you need video recordings. We had critical situation at home, so we also decided to set up a recording camera. Brand name is “Eufy”. Yes, you need to register an account to watch the streams, however recordings are stored on a sd card. They also offer door bells, which require a gateway, which then stores all the recordings. Eufy adversites it’s products for being secure and private, however… I just think everything comes with a price and Eufy offers a fair trade between privacy and comfortabity/usability. So for me: Ring is a no-go and I’m not willing to set up and maintain a homebrew-solution.
- Nextgrid 5y agoI'm not sure whether the doorbell uses the same Tuya platform as their vacuum cleaners do, but if they do then there's a major vulnerability there - essentially all their Tuya-based devices can be accessed by knowing just a (sequential) ID.
- immnn 5y agoThanks for the advice. Do you have some sources?
- Nextgrid 5y agoThis GitHub issue describes how the official Eufy app talks to Tuya: https://github.com/mitchellrj/eufy_robovac/issues/1 https://github.com/mitchellrj/eufy_robovac/issues/1 - you see that once you get your Tuya User ID from the Eufy API, the actual password to talk to Tuya is actually hardcoded and the same for every user. I've got some code that implements the "request signature" mechanism (the missing piece of the puzzle in the above issue) that might make this more obvious - you'll notice that the TuyaAPISession class only takes a username (the aforementioned sequential ID) and country code, no password (as it's hardcoded and the same for everyone): https://gitlab.com/Rjevski/eufy-device-id-and-local-key-grabber https://gitlab.com/Rjevski/eufy-device-id-and-local-key-grab...
- celeritascelery 5y ago
- jasonjayr 5y agoIt's probably overkill for a residential installation, but Grandstream has a SIP-based Audio/Video Keyfob/Keypad door access system. You could skip wiring up the door release mechanism, and just have it make a video call, and it's designed to be outdoors and weathered. http://www.grandstream.com/products/facility-management/facility-access-systems/product/gds3710 http://www.grandstream.com/products/facility-management/faci... However, with anything like this for a family, unless they share the same enthusiasm for DIY tech projects, frustrations will occur, and you will be the target of that frustration anytime it doesn't work :(
- bogdan_r 5y agoDahua VTO2202F It doesn't connect to the cloud and you can isolate it in a VLAN.
- denimnerd42 5y agohttps://kleypot.com/fully-offline-video-doorbell-for-home-assistant/ https://kleypot.com/fully-offline-video-doorbell-for-home-as...
- josho 5y agoI’m curious to learn why people buy these things. Crime rate where I live is low. Regardless that’s what insurance is for. And I’m not even sure if the doorbell would deter anyone. Even in a large house I don’t mind coming to the front door to answer the rare unexpected visitor. That leaves keeping delivery people honest and not throwing deliveries. But again I haven’t had that problem and if I did that’s what the return process is for. Are these the reasons and I’m just clearly not the target market. If so how are you different that it’s an important purchase to make? Thanks for sharing your perspectives.
- PietdeVries 5y ago"Regardless that’s what insurance is for." Wot?!? It appears you've never experienced the feeling that someone was in your house, your bedroom and went through your stuff - perhaps even while you were home... Money cannot fix everything. It can help, but the creepy feeling that your home is no longer private cannot be repaired...
- leesalminen 5y agoTotally agree. Had a couple of local drunkards come through an unlocked window to steal things years ago and could never shake the creepy factor. Broke the lease and moved early a couple weeks later.
- josho 5y agoYes, that sucks. I agree. But, the video doorbell doesn't help with drunks coming in a side/basement window. I understand an array of cameras around the house to cover your example. So, maybe the doorbell video is just one part of the solution--that makes sense. Only having a doorbell video to my earlier question doesn't seem to provide any value.
- giantg2 5y agoTrue, but I want to add that step 1 is lock the windows and doors. No single solution is a cover-all. We have to start with the most basic things, which are usually already installed (locks, blinds, etc).
- robotmay 5y agoI've just ordered an Amcrest AD410. It has RTSP support! I handle my video footage through https://frigate.video https://frigate.video hooked into Home Assistant, and the Amcrest cameras are pretty open and compatible with this setup, apparently. They have a (somewhat hidden) API, with some open source solutions like https://github.com/dchesterton/amcrest2mqtt https://github.com/dchesterton/amcrest2mqtt about which expose it to more common standards, and Home Assistant has an official integration for them too. I've been really happy with my Frigate setup and previously wrote a few words about the switch: https://senryu.pub/afternoonrobot/articles/replacing-unifi-video-with-frigate-and-home-assistant https://senryu.pub/afternoonrobot/articles/replacing-unifi-v.... It has taken me ages to find a viable doorbell, however, which is why I've only just ordered the AD410. I'm pretty hopeful for it, and a colleague already has one and really likes it.
- sliken 5y agoSo someone rings your door bell, can you grab your phone, click on the notification, and talk to them?
- robotmay 5y agoProbably not, but I don’t have a need for that - I’m really just after the video and notifications. I imagine it could be possible with some hacking but I haven’t got it yet.
- trog 5y agoWow. Thanks for posting about Frigate - that looks amazing. Just getting into Home Assistant and have been struggling with the video stuff but this looks like it will simplify a bunch of stuff. Just subscribed to your blog in the hope you do another write-up about the Amcrest camera!
- robotmay 5y agoOoh thanks! Yeah Frigate is fantastic and has saved me so much hassle. The Coral device is pretty much a requirement for performance but it does work really well :D I’ll definitely be writing up a few more things soon! I tend to go through bursts of sorting my Home Assistant stuff out.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ctime 5y agoThe eufy (Anker) video security products have worked very well for me and store the video locally. I don’t trust anything consumer oriented, but realistically I also don’t have time to invent my own solutions (nor do I want to maintain them). I can’t guarantee the Eufy cameras are the most secure setup, but the system works well, has a pretty good (above average) iOS app, doesn’t store on the “cloud”. No complaints here.
- who_me_qmark 5y agoWe ended up with the Eufy doorbell. Local storage is what sealed the deal for me. It's not perfect, but it's more than good enough. And there is no monthly subscription.
- bigyellow 5y agoHow do you configure these without a smart phone?
- tristor 5y agoProbably overkill for your purposes, but I wanted a wired networked solution that would allow me to synchronize/tile video from other surveillance cameras. I ended up deploying the Ubiquiti door bell as well as their Unifi cameras and the NVR + UDM Pro. Make sure you set it up with a local admin account and disable Unifi Cloud for security reasons. They're expensive, but they work well, and can be powered/connected via wired Ethernet with POE. The doorbell is the only one that's WiFi because it's powered via a standard doorbell transformer, but supports the latest WiFi protocols including WPA3. I'm sure the setup experience is less easy and seamless than a Nest, but it's more locally controlled, all video is locally recorded not in the cloud, and you get a strong management interface for large footprints.
- chomp 5y agoNetatmo? It records to a local SD card and can push videos via FTP or to Dropbox. No cloud recording or processing involved. I assume it does have some server that it talks to so that push notifications work, though. https://www.netatmo.com/en-us/security/doorbell https://www.netatmo.com/en-us/security/doorbell
- ssss11 5y agoI reckon regardless of product, you should block it at the router/firewall/pinhole level so it can’t communicate out to the internet.
- chrisMyzel 5y agoA camera wired to a monitor & a classical doorbell - for u asked ;-)