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My impression was the whole article is basically just “why don’t people like what I like”. These houses are scarce but that doesn’t necessarily mean the mainst

My impression was the whole article is basically just “why don’t people like what I like”. These houses are scarce but that doesn’t necessarily mean the mainstream market wants that. It’s a niche.

deadpannini 5y ago
When a niche becomes expensive, that indicates that there is a bigger market for it, even if it doesn't rise to the level of "mainstream."
Kaibeezy 5y ago
Concur. There's a good argument in the article, and a useless one. The useless one is the one you perceived. The good argument is that there are an array of characteristics that tend -- in various combinations and degrees -- to correspond to places people like. The correlation can be anecdotal, empirical, whatever, that's up to the writer, who should have made a case, not a whinge.
bogwog 5y ago
That's not what the article argued at all. It said that the reason these places are expensive is because they're rare (so demand > supply) and the reason they're rare is because people doing construction just assume that nice houses == expensive, so the average person won't be able to afford it. Except, if there were more of them, the prices would go down (supply >= demand), and more people would be able to afford them.
- jbjbjbjb 5y ago
  Yes more supply would make it cheaper for the people in the niche that wants that type of house. The writer hints at this but the penny doesn’t drop. It’s most likely that maybe he doesn’t understand the middle and working class market as well as the entire home building industry of America. Regular people need schools, offices, shops etc which need a level of scale to operate efficiently. That is going to counter the type of atmosphere and lifestyle in the towns the writer talks about. In the UK where small houses and towns are abundant, the quaint shops go where the money is and the rest of sit in traffic to drive in and out of town to go to school and work.
  - pja 5y ago
    This isn’t about “quaint shops”. This is being able to walk or cycle to your GP, or to the local shops to grab some milk, or to the nearest park to play with your kids. In the most sought after places, it’s about being able to take regular, fast public transport to your place of work, because it’s obviously quicker & less hassle than driving. In most of the US, you can’t build like this, because of zoning & planning restrictions, so regardless of whether the “middle and working classes” want them, they can’t. The fact that the neighbourhoods that do offer these features have incredibly expensive housing is evidence that people do want to live in these kinds of places. The UK, like a lot of Europe is a mix - in general new development is very car centric, but still much higher density than in the US.
    - jbjbjbjb 5y ago
      The author didn’t really talk about those practical concerns, the focus seemed to be about aesthetics. If you have a look at Milwaukee avenue it’s much lower density than anything in Europe. I live in a much denser town and I couldn’t walk to the GP, school or train station. They’re all 30-40 minutes walk in different directions. And we don’t tend to just choose the closest services to where we live.
      - engineeringwoke 5y ago
        There's plenty more content to watch from Strong Towns if you want to convince yourself that you aren't being attacked

deadpannini 5y ago

When a niche becomes expensive, that indicates that there is a bigger market for it, even if it doesn't rise to the level of "mainstream."

Kaibeezy 5y ago

Concur. There's a good argument in the article, and a useless one. The useless one is the one you perceived. The good argument is that there are an array of characteristics that tend -- in various combinations and degrees -- to correspond to places people like. The correlation can be anecdotal, empirical, whatever, that's up to the writer, who should have made a case, not a whinge.

bogwog 5y ago

That's not what the article argued at all. It said that the reason these places are expensive is because they're rare (so demand > supply) and the reason they're rare is because people doing construction just assume that nice houses == expensive, so the average person won't be able to afford it. Except, if there were more of them, the prices would go down (supply >= demand), and more people would be able to afford them.

jbjbjbjb 5y ago
Yes more supply would make it cheaper for the people in the niche that wants that type of house. The writer hints at this but the penny doesn’t drop. It’s most likely that maybe he doesn’t understand the middle and working class market as well as the entire home building industry of America. Regular people need schools, offices, shops etc which need a level of scale to operate efficiently. That is going to counter the type of atmosphere and lifestyle in the towns the writer talks about. In the UK where small houses and towns are abundant, the quaint shops go where the money is and the rest of sit in traffic to drive in and out of town to go to school and work.
- pja 5y ago
  This isn’t about “quaint shops”. This is being able to walk or cycle to your GP, or to the local shops to grab some milk, or to the nearest park to play with your kids. In the most sought after places, it’s about being able to take regular, fast public transport to your place of work, because it’s obviously quicker & less hassle than driving. In most of the US, you can’t build like this, because of zoning & planning restrictions, so regardless of whether the “middle and working classes” want them, they can’t. The fact that the neighbourhoods that do offer these features have incredibly expensive housing is evidence that people do want to live in these kinds of places. The UK, like a lot of Europe is a mix - in general new development is very car centric, but still much higher density than in the US.
  - jbjbjbjb 5y ago
    The author didn’t really talk about those practical concerns, the focus seemed to be about aesthetics. If you have a look at Milwaukee avenue it’s much lower density than anything in Europe. I live in a much denser town and I couldn’t walk to the GP, school or train station. They’re all 30-40 minutes walk in different directions. And we don’t tend to just choose the closest services to where we live.
    - engineeringwoke 5y ago
      There's plenty more content to watch from Strong Towns if you want to convince yourself that you aren't being attacked