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Funny story about my Metaverse experience... I assume this will be an unusual opinion, but I'm actually very excited about Metaverse. I probably would not have

Funny story about my Metaverse experience... I assume this will be an unusual opinion, but I'm actually very excited about Metaverse. I probably would not have chosen Facebook as the stewards of the first big VR-world, but I've been waiting a long time for some big co to make an investment in this direction. I think a (little m) metaverse is the obvious evolution for VR and could become ubiquitous. I left Facebook about 3 years ago, around Cambridge Analytica time. It's bee annoying - very hard to plan events, chat with family, etc. - but I've felt strongly enough that the privacy cost wasn't worth the value. When I heard about Facebook leaning hard into Metaverse, I immediately ordered an Oculus and signed up for a Facebook account (which is required to use Oculus). The value of being early in potentially the first big metaverse is well worth the privacy cost. Surprisingly, as soon as I created my account, the account was locked for "not following community standards". I hadn't even seen the feed yet, and I was banned! I appealed the ban, and no dice - now it's permanent. So now I am permanently locked out of Metaverse, presumably for the crime of not being a long-standing Facebook fan. When I imagine a world where a metaverse is a core piece of society, this sort of corporate gatekeeping is _exactly_ the thing I'd worry about.

tmikaeld 5y ago
If you registered with a fictional name and not your real name, that will get you banned. And also if you use a picture of a pet or cartoon avatar..
- notRobot 5y ago
  "You HAVE TO give us ALL your data, just some of it won't suffice!"
- boudin 5y ago
  That's a good starting point to create a virtual universe where you can create an avatar of yourself.
- josephwegner 5y ago
  It was my real name, real email. But I never even got to the point of uploading a picture. I did use a real picture for the appeal!
  - fomine3 5y ago
    The launch of Quest 2 is during US president election. It was maybe the worst time to create FB account because they will aggressively suspend fake accounts. I heard dozens of case that account suspended.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      "they will aggressively suspend accounts they call fake, and won't listen to any objections that they aren't".
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  >If you registered with a fictional name and not your real name, sounds like a thing programmers believe about names: that you can tell when one is fictional or real.
  - joshspankit 5y ago
    The same company that ships your Oculus to your door is the same company that you log in with (and probably the same one that has your info from scraping someone else’s contact list) Very easy to tell that your “real” name does not match your CC or your home address.
    - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
      sounds like a thing that programmers believe about people living at an address never buying presents for anyone else?
      - joshspankit 5y ago
        1. All it takes is one single suspicion for FB to shut down your account and ask for your ID. That can be as simple as someone putting in a report that you might not be using your real name. (Speaking from experience) 2. CC and address are the tip of the iceberg of data that FB has. The content of all messages you send on Messenger or IG (including any time your name was used), data from a bunch of other apps on your phone including IP, your other usernames, your photos and files, locations you travel to, etc. Possibly voice to text stored of anything you’ve ever said while in the Oculus and almost definitely anything you’ve ever said to anyone else through the Oculus, the way you walk, and a hundred other data points that are slurped up in real time any chance they get. 3. There’s almost no option to get your stuff back if banned. The longer you use a Quest the riskier this gets. Every dollar spent on games? Gone. Friend list? Gone. Friends? Gone if you never got external contact info. It’s easy to pretend you can get lost in the crowd and get away with it, and for some people maybe that’s true, but the data they have on you grows by the day...
    - fomine3 5y ago
- good8675309 5y ago
  I wonder if a VPN was involved. They probably have a set of red flags with different weights. Something tells me a VPN is a big red flag for them when it comes to new signups.
girvo 5y ago
I wonder how that would play with strong consumer protection laws. Not being able to use the device you paid for immediately is beyond the pale IMO.
- bserge 5y ago
  You pay for the service, the device is "free".
pron 5y ago
> I probably would not have chosen Facebook as the stewards of the first big VR-world You make it sound as if Facebook will actually be the stewards of the first big VR-world, but all they did was announce something to divert attention from a serious scandal. They might as well have announced that they'll work on colonising Mars, and you'd be sad for missing your opportunity to get prime real-estate on Amazonis Planitia. Facebook are not building a metaverse; they're selling ads and trying to avoid regulation.
- zdyn5 5y ago
  Love the HN swagger-talk even when it’s misinformed. Maybe they’ve accelerated the rebrand due to PR issues, but they’ve been heavily investing in AR/VR/metaverse for years, with Oculus back in 2014 and in the past few years poaching top silicon talent for low-power ASIC hardware. Their pseudo-AR RayBans commercially deployed few months ago. This has been a long time coming… FB has its issues to fix but no progress is going to come from falsehoods being thrown around.
  - pron 5y ago
    They're not building a metaverse any more than anyone who's building VR apps or developing 3D games. It's possible that Zuckerberg wishes they were, and is trying to make himself believe that they are, but a company that is yet to master text communication has no idea how to build a metaverse. What they're doing is working on some VR meeting/chat apps.
    - zdyn5 5y ago
      Except they’re building the most popular consumer VR headsets by far? (Without going into any of the software/platform stuff that’s being developed). Also see ASIC part of comment for AR (they've been on a hiring spree for silicon)… The hardware is probably the most serious technical bottleneck because the sensory experience is kinda janky and isn't super-compelling, so that’s where innovation has to happen first.
      - 5y ago
dafoex 5y ago
I would argue that Facebook are not the stewards of the first big VR world, Linden Labs are. Second Life has been a thing for a long time and, while not exactly the decentralised dream of an open metaverse we would want, its a hell of a lot more open and unregulated than whatever Zuckaberg's boffins could cook up in a month for the keynote scripted demo. Now, I could sing the praises of Second Life (and parallel efforts like Open Simulation) for a long time, but it would be unfair of me not to mention that it is not officially a VR experience. All VR access to "The Grid", as they call it, is done through third party "Viewers" (effectively a web browser for the metaverse) based on the now open source code for the official Linden Viewer. That said, there has been serious efforts made into making a VR Viewer for The Grid, and I expect such efforts will only be enboldened by the new direction Facebook/Meta is taking.
- josephwegner 5y ago
  Full agree here. Even before VR, Second Life is/was the biggest example of a metaverse. But, that's not a high bar - I don't know a single person that is active in Second Life. The small group of people I know that have even heard of Second Life at best gave it a try for a couple weeks. Second Life just never got momentum. The thing Facebook brings, regardless of what you think of their technical prowess, is a network. I don't know yet how they'll get devices on people's faces, but if Facebook has anything it's access to a massive userbase. That's arguably more important than any tech.
  - fho 5y ago
    I was on Second Life for a while around 2005(-ish) and back then it was a very colorful world striving with potential ... no idea what went wrong there, but back then it felt like "everything" is possible on there. From people who "worked" there for Linden Dollars, over not that bad arcade flight sims, relaxing Japanese Gardens to disturbing fetish outlets ...
  - iasondemiros 5y ago
    I have read this a few years ago and found it very interesting and very touching: https://www.wired.com/2017/02/first-they-got-sick-then-they-moved-into-a-virtual-utopia/ https://www.wired.com/2017/02/first-they-got-sick-then-they-...
tluyben2 5y ago
The worrying part is that you cannot appeal. That 'AI' bans seemingly random is known, but you should be able to appeal that in a sane world.
smsm42 5y ago
> imagine a world where a metaverse is a core piece of society, It's up to the society to make sure that doesn't happen. If we fail to ensure that, we get what we deserve. It's not like we don't have the advance warning. We just need to listen to it.

tmikaeld 5y ago

If you registered with a fictional name and not your real name, that will get you banned. And also if you use a picture of a pet or cartoon avatar..

notRobot 5y ago
"You HAVE TO give us ALL your data, just some of it won't suffice!"
boudin 5y ago
That's a good starting point to create a virtual universe where you can create an avatar of yourself.
josephwegner 5y ago
It was my real name, real email. But I never even got to the point of uploading a picture. I did use a real picture for the appeal!
- fomine3 5y ago
  The launch of Quest 2 is during US president election. It was maybe the worst time to create FB account because they will aggressively suspend fake accounts. I heard dozens of case that account suspended.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    "they will aggressively suspend accounts they call fake, and won't listen to any objections that they aren't".
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>If you registered with a fictional name and not your real name, sounds like a thing programmers believe about names: that you can tell when one is fictional or real.
- joshspankit 5y ago
  The same company that ships your Oculus to your door is the same company that you log in with (and probably the same one that has your info from scraping someone else’s contact list) Very easy to tell that your “real” name does not match your CC or your home address.
  - bryanrasmussen 5y ago
    sounds like a thing that programmers believe about people living at an address never buying presents for anyone else?
    - joshspankit 5y ago
      1. All it takes is one single suspicion for FB to shut down your account and ask for your ID. That can be as simple as someone putting in a report that you might not be using your real name. (Speaking from experience) 2. CC and address are the tip of the iceberg of data that FB has. The content of all messages you send on Messenger or IG (including any time your name was used), data from a bunch of other apps on your phone including IP, your other usernames, your photos and files, locations you travel to, etc. Possibly voice to text stored of anything you’ve ever said while in the Oculus and almost definitely anything you’ve ever said to anyone else through the Oculus, the way you walk, and a hundred other data points that are slurped up in real time any chance they get. 3. There’s almost no option to get your stuff back if banned. The longer you use a Quest the riskier this gets. Every dollar spent on games? Gone. Friend list? Gone. Friends? Gone if you never got external contact info. It’s easy to pretend you can get lost in the crowd and get away with it, and for some people maybe that’s true, but the data they have on you grows by the day...
  - fomine3 5y ago
good8675309 5y ago
I wonder if a VPN was involved. They probably have a set of red flags with different weights. Something tells me a VPN is a big red flag for them when it comes to new signups.

girvo 5y ago

I wonder how that would play with strong consumer protection laws. Not being able to use the device you paid for immediately is beyond the pale IMO.

bserge 5y ago
You pay for the service, the device is "free".

pron 5y ago

> I probably would not have chosen Facebook as the stewards of the first big VR-world You make it sound as if Facebook will actually be the stewards of the first big VR-world, but all they did was announce something to divert attention from a serious scandal. They might as well have announced that they'll work on colonising Mars, and you'd be sad for missing your opportunity to get prime real-estate on Amazonis Planitia. Facebook are not building a metaverse; they're selling ads and trying to avoid regulation.

zdyn5 5y ago
Love the HN swagger-talk even when it’s misinformed. Maybe they’ve accelerated the rebrand due to PR issues, but they’ve been heavily investing in AR/VR/metaverse for years, with Oculus back in 2014 and in the past few years poaching top silicon talent for low-power ASIC hardware. Their pseudo-AR RayBans commercially deployed few months ago. This has been a long time coming… FB has its issues to fix but no progress is going to come from falsehoods being thrown around.
- pron 5y ago
  They're not building a metaverse any more than anyone who's building VR apps or developing 3D games. It's possible that Zuckerberg wishes they were, and is trying to make himself believe that they are, but a company that is yet to master text communication has no idea how to build a metaverse. What they're doing is working on some VR meeting/chat apps.
  - zdyn5 5y ago
    Except they’re building the most popular consumer VR headsets by far? (Without going into any of the software/platform stuff that’s being developed). Also see ASIC part of comment for AR (they've been on a hiring spree for silicon)… The hardware is probably the most serious technical bottleneck because the sensory experience is kinda janky and isn't super-compelling, so that’s where innovation has to happen first.
    - 5y ago

dafoex 5y ago

I would argue that Facebook are not the stewards of the first big VR world, Linden Labs are. Second Life has been a thing for a long time and, while not exactly the decentralised dream of an open metaverse we would want, its a hell of a lot more open and unregulated than whatever Zuckaberg's boffins could cook up in a month for the keynote scripted demo. Now, I could sing the praises of Second Life (and parallel efforts like Open Simulation) for a long time, but it would be unfair of me not to mention that it is not officially a VR experience. All VR access to "The Grid", as they call it, is done through third party "Viewers" (effectively a web browser for the metaverse) based on the now open source code for the official Linden Viewer. That said, there has been serious efforts made into making a VR Viewer for The Grid, and I expect such efforts will only be enboldened by the new direction Facebook/Meta is taking.

josephwegner 5y ago
Full agree here. Even before VR, Second Life is/was the biggest example of a metaverse. But, that's not a high bar - I don't know a single person that is active in Second Life. The small group of people I know that have even heard of Second Life at best gave it a try for a couple weeks. Second Life just never got momentum. The thing Facebook brings, regardless of what you think of their technical prowess, is a network. I don't know yet how they'll get devices on people's faces, but if Facebook has anything it's access to a massive userbase. That's arguably more important than any tech.
- fho 5y ago
  I was on Second Life for a while around 2005(-ish) and back then it was a very colorful world striving with potential ... no idea what went wrong there, but back then it felt like "everything" is possible on there. From people who "worked" there for Linden Dollars, over not that bad arcade flight sims, relaxing Japanese Gardens to disturbing fetish outlets ...
- iasondemiros 5y ago
  I have read this a few years ago and found it very interesting and very touching: https://www.wired.com/2017/02/first-they-got-sick-then-they-moved-into-a-virtual-utopia/ https://www.wired.com/2017/02/first-they-got-sick-then-they-...

tluyben2 5y ago

The worrying part is that you cannot appeal. That 'AI' bans seemingly random is known, but you should be able to appeal that in a sane world.

smsm42 5y ago

> imagine a world where a metaverse is a core piece of society, It's up to the society to make sure that doesn't happen. If we fail to ensure that, we get what we deserve. It's not like we don't have the advance warning. We just need to listen to it.