6 ms·

> It sounds to me like Munger is correct, and on average people would rather have a small private room with a fake window and lower rent and than a shared room

by Jochim 5y ago

> It sounds to me like Munger is correct, and on average people would rather have a small private room with a fake window and lower rent and than a shared room with a real window and higher rent. I’m not sure why this particular structure has provoked so much more outrage than the previous ones. There's something that feels off about this statement. It reads much like the articles that talk about how young millennials are "choosing" to live in pod houses/tiny homes when in reality they can't afford anything better. They are forced to live in these conditions which are then normalised by authors framing it as a free choice.

542458 5y ago
This isn’t the only residence on UM campus! The rest are “normal”. And what you said doesn’t align with the good reviews the pace gets, even compared to “normal” housing. And to be honest, we’re always going to have to “force” people into some sort of living condition. There are more people than ever going to higher education, so people will have to accept either smaller living spaces, denser construction, higher costs, or longer commutes to school - space is (unfortunately) a rival good, and giving everybody a large dorm is likely not viable.
2muchcoffeeman 5y ago
As I was reading the article, I started thinking this guy was right. At university, I would often have to get to a lab or whatever early in the morning and then get home late at night. I would have this sort of routine for weeks or months at a time. I may as well have had no windows. I think as long as you get out during the day, and as a student, that’s probably likely, this sort of arrangement seems to make sense. But still offends me.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  It's offensive because it's someone dictating how student's should live. It besmirches any goodwill from the original act of philanthropy.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    If there is no fountain in the lobby, is that also dictating how the students live: without lobby fountains?
  - merrywhether 5y ago
    In essence, you could describe your stance as forcing all residents to pay a tax for a benefit that you deem is for their own good. In this case it’s windows, but would you support this stance for other reasons? What if it was that all rooms come with a large crucifix on the wall (wasting wall and floor space)?
    - JKCalhoun 5y ago
      Not at all. I'm calling philanthropy with strings attached barely philanthropy.
      - Chris2048 5y ago
        > philanthropy with strings attached Are soup kitchens "with strings attached" if they don't offer your favourite type of soup?
  - refurb 5y ago
    I’m sorry what? No matter what type of dorm that is built it’s dictating how students should live?!?
    - dls2016 5y ago
      It’s a public university, and in my opinion the public should decide what to build… not unelected, unaccountable twits with a lot of money.
      - mdp2021 5y ago
        > should decide Everyone with their own money. The university with its own, the donors with their own.
craftinator 5y ago
I remember the stress of worrying about rent pretty clearly, especially given my room was basically a sleeping and hygiene chamber that I hardly spent time in, but still had to have for those two critical functions. > They are forced to live in these conditions I agree that the choice between crippling rent rates and having no access to windows is not a good one, but it seems a function of where we are economically. Base rents everywhere I've ever lived are much higher compared to minimum wage than they've been for past generations.
- Jochim 5y ago
  > I agree that the choice between crippling rent rates and having no access to windows is not a good one, but it seems a function of where we are economically. Base rents everywhere I've ever lived are much higher compared to minimum wage than they've been for past generations. They are absurdly high and I think the people who are put in that position are doing what they feel is in their best interest. What worries and frustrates me is that many publications/people seem to be seeking to normalise the situation we're in rather than thinking about how we could provide a better standard of living to people.
rkk3 5y ago
> articles that talk about how young millennials are "choosing" to live in pod houses/tiny homes when in reality they can't afford anything better. They are forced to live in these conditions "conditions"? 1 in 20 UC students is homeless [1] and they want to a build a 5,000 single occupancy rooms for 1.5 Billion. But somehow everyone and their mother finds a reason to veto new development. 1. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-02/what-critics-of-the-windowless-mega-dorm-are-missing https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-02/what-crit...
- pzo 5y ago
  I don't know US situation but this still seems expensive: 1.5Billion / 5000 == 300k USD per person. I understand the whole building provide also different kind of space but it still feels too expensive to build. I don't why they cannot build simply longer buildings with each room having a window instead of big square one with most rooms not having window at all? Both such buildings would occupy the same amount of squares per meter. A decade ago I was exchange student in Umea, Sweden and dorms were really good. In every corridor there where 8 rooms. Everyone had their own room + own small bathroom. Room was like 3x size of those in the article. Corridor had big shared kitchen and living room. Rent per month was like 450 euro. Campus was really big - it was basically a student city so there was a space for everyone. Those buildings were just simply longer. Building student campuses/universities outside of big cities also helped.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > I don't know US situation but this still seems expensive It is expensive. > I don't why they cannot build simply longer buildings It's not simple. They have to deal with zoning laws, land owned/available to the university, costs (which you already think are too high) and maximizing occupancy etc, etc. > Everyone had their own room + own small bathroom. Room was like 3x size Sounds nice in Sweden... meanwhile in the UC system 1 in 20 students are homeless.
  - xboxnolifes 5y ago
    > 1.5Billion / 5000 == 300k USD per person No, it's effectively 300k per room, not per person. This structure will be up for more than 1 semester and certainly up for more than than length of one person living in it. That being said, I have no frame of reference for the cost of similar structures. It definitely sounds fairly expensive considering the size of the room + common area.

by Jochim 5y ago

542458 5y ago

This isn’t the only residence on UM campus! The rest are “normal”. And what you said doesn’t align with the good reviews the pace gets, even compared to “normal” housing. And to be honest, we’re always going to have to “force” people into some sort of living condition. There are more people than ever going to higher education, so people will have to accept either smaller living spaces, denser construction, higher costs, or longer commutes to school - space is (unfortunately) a rival good, and giving everybody a large dorm is likely not viable.

2muchcoffeeman 5y ago

As I was reading the article, I started thinking this guy was right. At university, I would often have to get to a lab or whatever early in the morning and then get home late at night. I would have this sort of routine for weeks or months at a time. I may as well have had no windows. I think as long as you get out during the day, and as a student, that’s probably likely, this sort of arrangement seems to make sense. But still offends me.

JKCalhoun 5y ago
It's offensive because it's someone dictating how student's should live. It besmirches any goodwill from the original act of philanthropy.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  If there is no fountain in the lobby, is that also dictating how the students live: without lobby fountains?
- merrywhether 5y ago
  In essence, you could describe your stance as forcing all residents to pay a tax for a benefit that you deem is for their own good. In this case it’s windows, but would you support this stance for other reasons? What if it was that all rooms come with a large crucifix on the wall (wasting wall and floor space)?
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    Not at all. I'm calling philanthropy with strings attached barely philanthropy.
    - Chris2048 5y ago
      > philanthropy with strings attached Are soup kitchens "with strings attached" if they don't offer your favourite type of soup?
- refurb 5y ago
  I’m sorry what? No matter what type of dorm that is built it’s dictating how students should live?!?
  - dls2016 5y ago
    It’s a public university, and in my opinion the public should decide what to build… not unelected, unaccountable twits with a lot of money.
    - mdp2021 5y ago
      > should decide Everyone with their own money. The university with its own, the donors with their own.

craftinator 5y ago

I remember the stress of worrying about rent pretty clearly, especially given my room was basically a sleeping and hygiene chamber that I hardly spent time in, but still had to have for those two critical functions. > They are forced to live in these conditions I agree that the choice between crippling rent rates and having no access to windows is not a good one, but it seems a function of where we are economically. Base rents everywhere I've ever lived are much higher compared to minimum wage than they've been for past generations.

Jochim 5y ago
> I agree that the choice between crippling rent rates and having no access to windows is not a good one, but it seems a function of where we are economically. Base rents everywhere I've ever lived are much higher compared to minimum wage than they've been for past generations. They are absurdly high and I think the people who are put in that position are doing what they feel is in their best interest. What worries and frustrates me is that many publications/people seem to be seeking to normalise the situation we're in rather than thinking about how we could provide a better standard of living to people.

rkk3 5y ago

> articles that talk about how young millennials are "choosing" to live in pod houses/tiny homes when in reality they can't afford anything better. They are forced to live in these conditions "conditions"? 1 in 20 UC students is homeless [1] and they want to a build a 5,000 single occupancy rooms for 1.5 Billion. But somehow everyone and their mother finds a reason to veto new development. 1. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-02/what-critics-of-the-windowless-mega-dorm-are-missing https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-02/what-crit...

pzo 5y ago
I don't know US situation but this still seems expensive: 1.5Billion / 5000 == 300k USD per person. I understand the whole building provide also different kind of space but it still feels too expensive to build. I don't why they cannot build simply longer buildings with each room having a window instead of big square one with most rooms not having window at all? Both such buildings would occupy the same amount of squares per meter. A decade ago I was exchange student in Umea, Sweden and dorms were really good. In every corridor there where 8 rooms. Everyone had their own room + own small bathroom. Room was like 3x size of those in the article. Corridor had big shared kitchen and living room. Rent per month was like 450 euro. Campus was really big - it was basically a student city so there was a space for everyone. Those buildings were just simply longer. Building student campuses/universities outside of big cities also helped.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > I don't know US situation but this still seems expensive It is expensive. > I don't why they cannot build simply longer buildings It's not simple. They have to deal with zoning laws, land owned/available to the university, costs (which you already think are too high) and maximizing occupancy etc, etc. > Everyone had their own room + own small bathroom. Room was like 3x size Sounds nice in Sweden... meanwhile in the UC system 1 in 20 students are homeless.
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  > 1.5Billion / 5000 == 300k USD per person No, it's effectively 300k per room, not per person. This structure will be up for more than 1 semester and certainly up for more than than length of one person living in it. That being said, I have no frame of reference for the cost of similar structures. It definitely sounds fairly expensive considering the size of the room + common area.