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I would worry if people started moving away from Emacs as text-centric. My biggest complaint with VSCode (which I do fully expect to take over and to which I wi

by thom 5y ago

I would worry if people started moving away from Emacs as text-centric. My biggest complaint with VSCode (which I do fully expect to take over and to which I will one day presumably have to migrate) is that there's so much damn UI for things. The terminal window isn't just a buffer of text like everything else, it's its own ungodly window that pops up differently. Most extensions are primarily UI instead of keyboard and text driven. There's a nice Magit clone which does things properly, and I'd love to see more effort on things like that. But fundamentally VSCode doesn't seem to have the right level of abstraction to allow all this.

justsomedood 5y ago
This is the exact issue I have with VSCode. I don't particularly like the keybinds in emacs, but the killer feature for me is that everything is a text buffer. Eshell, magic, lsp, I interact with them all in a similar way from the keyboard. It was the terminal in VSCode that brought me back to emacs
thrower123 5y ago
The problem with VS Code is there is *not enough* UI. I desperately would like to have some toolbars and menu options, because the kotkeys and key-chords VS Code uses, where they aren't following conventions, are not easily discoverable. They're in a bind because they are trying to straddle a market where you've got emacs an vim users to one side and Visual Studio users to the other. Some ability to customize the UI, even if it were provided by a plugin, would be helpful.
- alvarlagerlof 5y ago
  I use the Ctrl + shift + p for everything like that until I learn the shortcut.
- thom 5y ago
  Are they not discoverable via the command palette? I find Emacs very helpful here, commands are always prefixed sensibly and you can do fuzzy search on them anyway. You can run 'apropos' if you're really stuck and help is built in to every function. It'll show you bindings if you don't know them and invoke a command directly etc etc. I feel like VSCode has most of this. Besides, they're your key bindings anyway, I think it's worth investing in whatever's ergonomic for you given you'll likely spend a decade or more with an editor. One annoyance I had was that extensions were regularly changing commands and throwing away my bindings though. I should be clear though, I am not suggesting they strip it to the bone at the expense of other users' tastes. I just hate that I can't do that _myself_ because it's not quite as low level as Emacs.
  - thrower123 5y ago
    It's difficult to discover a command with the command palette if you don't already know what they've called it. I dunno, I'm old. I use directories and folders and hierarchical organization instead of searching when I'm allowed to. VS Code is offputting enough and different enough in conventions from everything else I use that I don't have a great deal of interest in learning it's idiosyncrasies where they depart from standard UX.

by thom 5y ago

justsomedood 5y ago

This is the exact issue I have with VSCode. I don't particularly like the keybinds in emacs, but the killer feature for me is that everything is a text buffer. Eshell, magic, lsp, I interact with them all in a similar way from the keyboard. It was the terminal in VSCode that brought me back to emacs

thrower123 5y ago

The problem with VS Code is there is *not enough* UI. I desperately would like to have some toolbars and menu options, because the kotkeys and key-chords VS Code uses, where they aren't following conventions, are not easily discoverable. They're in a bind because they are trying to straddle a market where you've got emacs an vim users to one side and Visual Studio users to the other. Some ability to customize the UI, even if it were provided by a plugin, would be helpful.

alvarlagerlof 5y ago
I use the Ctrl + shift + p for everything like that until I learn the shortcut.
thom 5y ago
Are they not discoverable via the command palette? I find Emacs very helpful here, commands are always prefixed sensibly and you can do fuzzy search on them anyway. You can run 'apropos' if you're really stuck and help is built in to every function. It'll show you bindings if you don't know them and invoke a command directly etc etc. I feel like VSCode has most of this. Besides, they're your key bindings anyway, I think it's worth investing in whatever's ergonomic for you given you'll likely spend a decade or more with an editor. One annoyance I had was that extensions were regularly changing commands and throwing away my bindings though. I should be clear though, I am not suggesting they strip it to the bone at the expense of other users' tastes. I just hate that I can't do that _myself_ because it's not quite as low level as Emacs.
- thrower123 5y ago
  It's difficult to discover a command with the command palette if you don't already know what they've called it. I dunno, I'm old. I use directories and folders and hierarchical organization instead of searching when I'm allowed to. VS Code is offputting enough and different enough in conventions from everything else I use that I don't have a great deal of interest in learning it's idiosyncrasies where they depart from standard UX.