10 ms·

After a part of his brain was removed, guitarist Pat Martino got his groove back

macintux 5y ago
(2015) He passed away a few days ago. RIP, quite a poignant story. Enjoying this live performance from 1975: https://youtu.be/lNZbyjsggbw https://youtu.be/lNZbyjsggbw
- rtsil 5y ago
  First Chick Corea, now Pat Martino. This has been a sad year for jazz lovers.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
On Monday, Nov. 1 2021, Martino died after suffering from a chronic respiratory disorder. He was 77. Martino recovered from surgery with a significant portion of his brain and memory gone, but his guitar skills intact. I used to run a discussion group for people with neurological quirks. The details of how the brain works and the strange exceptions you wouldn't predict are endlessly fascinating.
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  I personally think that Oliver Sacks' "The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat" should be required reading in school for providing an understanding of how seemingly illogically our logic engine works. It's made me more understanding of 'how people work', and as a result has helped me deal with difficult people in a less combative manner.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Angostura 5y ago
    The Man Who Mistook His Patients For A Publishing Opportunity.
    - rStar 5y ago
      ;,)
- ford_o 5y ago
  Tell us more.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
civilized 5y ago
Did he lose his skills due to a problem in his brain and then get them back when it was removed? Or did he just have brain surgery and it took him a while to recover?
- pohl 5y ago
  Martino had been performing until a hemorrhaged arteriovenous malformation caused a "near-fatal seizure" in 1980. This left him with amnesia and no recollection or knowledge of his career or how to play the very instrument that made him successful. Martino says he came out of surgery with complete forgetfulness, learning to focus on the present instead of the past or what may lie ahead. He was forced to learn how to play the guitar from zero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Martino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Martino Also check out this documentary: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EQ2FyXZwg9E https://youtube.com/watch?v=EQ2FyXZwg9E
SubGenius 5y ago
Martino was amazing. He had some of the wildest "lines". You can think of an improvised guitar solo as a series of small blocks/lines with breaks in between to think, or just rest your fingers. Martino's lines just keep going on and on, similar to John Coltrane. Or Allan Holdsworth. Here's Martino playing John Coltrane's Impressions. It's so tastefully played. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrrdbS2spkQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrrdbS2spkQ My personal favorite is his record Baiyina. It's very trippy, full of odd-time signatures, sitar-like drones, tabla etc. Recorded quite early in the fusion era too. The Live at Yoshi's record with Billy Hart and Joey DeFrancesco is fantastic as well. Pat Martino at the top of his game playing with a very tight rhythm section.
- scoot 5y ago
  > Here's Martino playing John Coltrane's Impressions. It starts off well, but soon crosses the line into "random with rhythm". Is that just jazz? Maybe. But arguably it fails the "musicality" test.
  - maroonblazer 5y ago
    Was that your first listen? Some music/art requires several exposures before you begin to understand or appreciate what the artist is up to.
    - rStar 5y ago
      so, funny enough i always thought this as well. i have since stopped condescending to others about what they should or shouldn’t like.
  - rtsil 5y ago
    I am ashamed to say that, having been trained in classical music, I used to think exactly the same thing about jazz. Jazz for me was either elevator music or random noises mixed together. Until I finally listened to it seriously and studied it. I learned more about music, harmony, music theory and playing techniques in a couple of years than in a decade of classical training and listening. Even as a very mediocre player, I can reach creative heights that I never could before, when I just played what's on the page. Just because I did not understand what's going on because of a lack of the required background does not mean that it is not musical. Not everything is packaged in easily digestible bits, some things require more, much more work, and the reward is much better. One thing I can assure you, despite being a pure improvisation, nothing in that performance is random or out of place.
frereubu 5y ago
For those like me who wanted to see the MRI, and were frustrated that it wasn't in the article, it's here: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1878875013012308-gr2.jpg https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S18788750130123... It's pretty spectacular. From a Google Images search that lead to this article - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875013012308 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S18788... - but presumably showing Google more images than normal visitors who aren't logged in.
xavriley 5y ago
An aspect of Pat that I don't see discussed much is that he had absolute pitch according to various comments I've seen online. I'd be very curious as to whether that was affected by the surgery. I think it would also have helped him with the remarkable recovery as well.
- maroonblazer 5y ago
  I don't have absolute pitch but pretty good relative pitch and can't see how it would've helped. Someone with absolute pitch doesn't, necessarily, understand the relationship between notes. That has to be learned by studying music. I.e. being able to hear that a C and and Eb have been played doesn't tell you that they form a minor third and that minor third can be used to form all sorts of different chords/sounds. At least that's my conjecture. I'd love to hear from someone who has perfect/absolute pitch if they agree.
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    (Perfect pitch here, jazz pianist.) Yes, what you say sounds right. Although I don't remember a time before I knew lots of things about minor 3rds, so I don't know what that's like, or which came first. I don't know if there are many people with perfect pitch and without childhood music training/practice—I don't think so. I also have no idea why it would help with brain recovery.
    - xavriley 5y ago
      Perfect pitch for a jazz improviser is a bit like a super power. Audiation - the audio equivalent of visualisation - is a key part of jazz improv. Having absolute pitch means you don’t have work quite as hard to translate those ideas onto your instrument (it’s still work though). I’ve studied Pat’s playing a lot and transcribed several of his solos. The “muscle memory” seems to be a huge part of his playing as he has so much great dorian material under his fingers and he knows how to connect all those ideas really well, and how to repurpose them over various other chord types. WRT perfect pitch I think that must have helped him to build all that vocabulary in the first place. I’m just wondering whether he retained the ability after the op and how he related to it in his playing. Coda - “absolute pitch” is a biological phenomenon. People recognise a C as easily as we recognise the colour red. “True pitch” is a variation where people play an instrument for so long that they can remember the sound of a pitch on that instrument. It’s a slower, less reliable process. Many people get the two confused
hyperpallium2 5y ago
Motor skills and timing, like guitar twchnique, seem to reside in the cerebellum.
bobthechef 5y ago
The view that function is strictly tied to some particular piece of the brain like a machine is simplistic.
- Jensson 5y ago
  It is simplistic but not fully wrong, when you remove a part of the brain you often don't kill the person, instead the person just lost a part of their mental functions. This is a fact, and based on that we can say that some functions tend to live in some parts of the brain.
jftuga 5y ago
Rick Beato did a tribute to him 4 days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfLZjIQigQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfLZjIQigQ
busymom0 5y ago
Reminds me of the musician who played the violin while having brain surgery at Mayo Clinic: https://youtu.be/T3QQOQAILZw https://youtu.be/T3QQOQAILZw

(2015) He passed away a few days ago. RIP, quite a poignant story. Enjoying this live performance from 1975: https://youtu.be/lNZbyjsggbw https://youtu.be/lNZbyjsggbw

rtsil 5y ago
First Chick Corea, now Pat Martino. This has been a sad year for jazz lovers.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

On Monday, Nov. 1 2021, Martino died after suffering from a chronic respiratory disorder. He was 77. Martino recovered from surgery with a significant portion of his brain and memory gone, but his guitar skills intact. I used to run a discussion group for people with neurological quirks. The details of how the brain works and the strange exceptions you wouldn't predict are endlessly fascinating.

BLKNSLVR 5y ago
I personally think that Oliver Sacks' "The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat" should be required reading in school for providing an understanding of how seemingly illogically our logic engine works. It's made me more understanding of 'how people work', and as a result has helped me deal with difficult people in a less combative manner.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Angostura 5y ago
  The Man Who Mistook His Patients For A Publishing Opportunity.
  - rStar 5y ago
    ;,)
ford_o 5y ago
Tell us more.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

civilized 5y ago

Did he lose his skills due to a problem in his brain and then get them back when it was removed? Or did he just have brain surgery and it took him a while to recover?

pohl 5y ago
Martino had been performing until a hemorrhaged arteriovenous malformation caused a "near-fatal seizure" in 1980. This left him with amnesia and no recollection or knowledge of his career or how to play the very instrument that made him successful. Martino says he came out of surgery with complete forgetfulness, learning to focus on the present instead of the past or what may lie ahead. He was forced to learn how to play the guitar from zero. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Martino https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Martino Also check out this documentary: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EQ2FyXZwg9E https://youtube.com/watch?v=EQ2FyXZwg9E

SubGenius 5y ago

Martino was amazing. He had some of the wildest "lines". You can think of an improvised guitar solo as a series of small blocks/lines with breaks in between to think, or just rest your fingers. Martino's lines just keep going on and on, similar to John Coltrane. Or Allan Holdsworth. Here's Martino playing John Coltrane's Impressions. It's so tastefully played. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrrdbS2spkQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrrdbS2spkQ My personal favorite is his record Baiyina. It's very trippy, full of odd-time signatures, sitar-like drones, tabla etc. Recorded quite early in the fusion era too. The Live at Yoshi's record with Billy Hart and Joey DeFrancesco is fantastic as well. Pat Martino at the top of his game playing with a very tight rhythm section.

scoot 5y ago
> Here's Martino playing John Coltrane's Impressions. It starts off well, but soon crosses the line into "random with rhythm". Is that just jazz? Maybe. But arguably it fails the "musicality" test.
- maroonblazer 5y ago
  Was that your first listen? Some music/art requires several exposures before you begin to understand or appreciate what the artist is up to.
  - rStar 5y ago
    so, funny enough i always thought this as well. i have since stopped condescending to others about what they should or shouldn’t like.
- rtsil 5y ago
  I am ashamed to say that, having been trained in classical music, I used to think exactly the same thing about jazz. Jazz for me was either elevator music or random noises mixed together. Until I finally listened to it seriously and studied it. I learned more about music, harmony, music theory and playing techniques in a couple of years than in a decade of classical training and listening. Even as a very mediocre player, I can reach creative heights that I never could before, when I just played what's on the page. Just because I did not understand what's going on because of a lack of the required background does not mean that it is not musical. Not everything is packaged in easily digestible bits, some things require more, much more work, and the reward is much better. One thing I can assure you, despite being a pure improvisation, nothing in that performance is random or out of place.

frereubu 5y ago

For those like me who wanted to see the MRI, and were frustrated that it wasn't in the article, it's here: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1878875013012308-gr2.jpg https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S18788750130123... It's pretty spectacular. From a Google Images search that lead to this article - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1878875013012308 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S18788... - but presumably showing Google more images than normal visitors who aren't logged in.

xavriley 5y ago

An aspect of Pat that I don't see discussed much is that he had absolute pitch according to various comments I've seen online. I'd be very curious as to whether that was affected by the surgery. I think it would also have helped him with the remarkable recovery as well.

maroonblazer 5y ago
I don't have absolute pitch but pretty good relative pitch and can't see how it would've helped. Someone with absolute pitch doesn't, necessarily, understand the relationship between notes. That has to be learned by studying music. I.e. being able to hear that a C and and Eb have been played doesn't tell you that they form a minor third and that minor third can be used to form all sorts of different chords/sounds. At least that's my conjecture. I'd love to hear from someone who has perfect/absolute pitch if they agree.
- yesenadam 5y ago
  (Perfect pitch here, jazz pianist.) Yes, what you say sounds right. Although I don't remember a time before I knew lots of things about minor 3rds, so I don't know what that's like, or which came first. I don't know if there are many people with perfect pitch and without childhood music training/practice—I don't think so. I also have no idea why it would help with brain recovery.
  - xavriley 5y ago
    Perfect pitch for a jazz improviser is a bit like a super power. Audiation - the audio equivalent of visualisation - is a key part of jazz improv. Having absolute pitch means you don’t have work quite as hard to translate those ideas onto your instrument (it’s still work though). I’ve studied Pat’s playing a lot and transcribed several of his solos. The “muscle memory” seems to be a huge part of his playing as he has so much great dorian material under his fingers and he knows how to connect all those ideas really well, and how to repurpose them over various other chord types. WRT perfect pitch I think that must have helped him to build all that vocabulary in the first place. I’m just wondering whether he retained the ability after the op and how he related to it in his playing. Coda - “absolute pitch” is a biological phenomenon. People recognise a C as easily as we recognise the colour red. “True pitch” is a variation where people play an instrument for so long that they can remember the sound of a pitch on that instrument. It’s a slower, less reliable process. Many people get the two confused

hyperpallium2 5y ago

Motor skills and timing, like guitar twchnique, seem to reside in the cerebellum.

bobthechef 5y ago

The view that function is strictly tied to some particular piece of the brain like a machine is simplistic.

Jensson 5y ago
It is simplistic but not fully wrong, when you remove a part of the brain you often don't kill the person, instead the person just lost a part of their mental functions. This is a fact, and based on that we can say that some functions tend to live in some parts of the brain.

jftuga 5y ago

Rick Beato did a tribute to him 4 days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfLZjIQigQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfLZjIQigQ

busymom0 5y ago

Reminds me of the musician who played the violin while having brain surgery at Mayo Clinic: https://youtu.be/T3QQOQAILZw https://youtu.be/T3QQOQAILZw