4 ms·

> No doctor/hospital is going to harvest organs unless the person is warm and dead Well, that's the thing. "warm and dead" is above and beyond the criteria you

> No doctor/hospital is going to harvest organs unless the person is warm and dead Well, that's the thing. "warm and dead" is above and beyond the criteria you referenced earlier, "clinical death". I'd hope you're right, but I'm not convinced you are. It doesn't seem like it from what I've seen. And, the cooling factor in brain damage prevention is becoming more widely known these days. Anna wasn't just a fluke.

robbiep 5y ago
What have you seen?
- generalizations 5y ago
  That Wikipedia article, which gives a definition of clinical death, and then talks about how clinical death is survivable. According to that article, clinical death != warm and dead.
  - robbiep 5y ago
    So on the basis of a Wikipedia article and with no further research, you’re now concerned people are harvesting organs when a person could potentially survive? [0] is the Australian College of Intensive Care guidelines on organ harvesting. There are strict criteria around when a person is considered dead and for organ donation that means brain death. I’m not sure what you’re worried about, this was easily discoverable - clinical death is not the criteria that is used for the determination of organ donation eligibility [0] https://csds.qld.edu.au/sdc/Provectus/ELI/Module%202%20-%20Organ%20donation%20after%20brain%20death/files/ANZICS%20Statement%20on%20%20Death%20and%20Organ%20Donation%20Edition%203.2%20(3).pdf https://csds.qld.edu.au/sdc/Provectus/ELI/Module%202%20-%20O...
    - generalizations 5y ago
      > So on the basis of a Wikipedia article and with no further research, you’re now concerned people are harvesting organs when a person could potentially survive? No, I'm asking a question and having a discussion, and you decided to jump in with your hostile skepticism that's completely unwarranted. Chill out.
      - robbiep 5y ago
        If you re read your comments, there is a tone of ‘they’re up to something and it can’t be good’. It’s as far from ‘I’m interested in this topic and would like to have a discussion to learn more’ as a QAnon follower is from a PhD student. I’m not the only one who picked up on it as you can see by the other commenter.
        generalizations 5y ago
        > there is a tone of ‘they’re up to something and it can’t be good’ No, there's a tone of 'exactly how dead is dead'. If you look at the other commenter, sometimes doctors jump the gun. > far from ‘I’m interested in this topic and would like to have a discussion to learn more’ as a QAnon follower is from a PhD student Congrats, you've managed to drag in completely unrelated politics. You're assuming the worst of me. You're comparing me to a Qanon follower, apparently. You're giving (unfounded) credit to a commenter who called me a 'covid vaccine denier'. Seems like you're implying that I'm not acting in good faith. It's like you're looking for people that fit your preconceptions, and shoehorning me into it. That's prejudice, plain and simple. Chill out.
        robbiep 5y ago
        > No, there's a tone of 'exactly how dead is dead'. If you look at the other commenter, sometimes doctors jump the gun. No, they don't - you made a misunderstanding which perpetuated a line of questioning which isn't a practical concern. Brain Death + other criteria depending on jurisdiction is a pre-requisite for cadaveric organ donation As to the rest, you have approached this from the perspective of 'prove to me that X doesn't happen' which is perilously close to that of the antivax/antiscience brigades. I apologise for thinking the worst of you but I wasn't the only one which perhaps reflects on the approach you have taken in your line of questioning in these highly polarised times
        generalizations 5y ago
        I went back and looked up brain death, and yeah, I made a misunderstanding. Fair enough. > you have approached this from the perspective of 'prove to me that X doesn't happen' There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If I'm thinking of buying a power tool, then 'prove to me that <rapid unplanned disassembly> doesn't happen' is an appropriate tone, and exactly the kind of skeptical questioning that should take place: it's my problem if the problem happens. I don't care what kind of political climate we're in; you don't get to tell me what kinds of questions I'm not supposed to ask.
pnutjam 5y ago
Tell me your a covid vaccine denier without telling me your a covid vaccine denier.

robbiep 5y ago

What have you seen?

generalizations 5y ago
That Wikipedia article, which gives a definition of clinical death, and then talks about how clinical death is survivable. According to that article, clinical death != warm and dead.
- robbiep 5y ago
  So on the basis of a Wikipedia article and with no further research, you’re now concerned people are harvesting organs when a person could potentially survive? [0] is the Australian College of Intensive Care guidelines on organ harvesting. There are strict criteria around when a person is considered dead and for organ donation that means brain death. I’m not sure what you’re worried about, this was easily discoverable - clinical death is not the criteria that is used for the determination of organ donation eligibility [0] https://csds.qld.edu.au/sdc/Provectus/ELI/Module%202%20-%20Organ%20donation%20after%20brain%20death/files/ANZICS%20Statement%20on%20%20Death%20and%20Organ%20Donation%20Edition%203.2%20(3).pdf https://csds.qld.edu.au/sdc/Provectus/ELI/Module%202%20-%20O...
  - generalizations 5y ago
    > So on the basis of a Wikipedia article and with no further research, you’re now concerned people are harvesting organs when a person could potentially survive? No, I'm asking a question and having a discussion, and you decided to jump in with your hostile skepticism that's completely unwarranted. Chill out.
    - robbiep 5y ago
      If you re read your comments, there is a tone of ‘they’re up to something and it can’t be good’. It’s as far from ‘I’m interested in this topic and would like to have a discussion to learn more’ as a QAnon follower is from a PhD student. I’m not the only one who picked up on it as you can see by the other commenter.
      - generalizations 5y ago
        > there is a tone of ‘they’re up to something and it can’t be good’ No, there's a tone of 'exactly how dead is dead'. If you look at the other commenter, sometimes doctors jump the gun. > far from ‘I’m interested in this topic and would like to have a discussion to learn more’ as a QAnon follower is from a PhD student Congrats, you've managed to drag in completely unrelated politics. You're assuming the worst of me. You're comparing me to a Qanon follower, apparently. You're giving (unfounded) credit to a commenter who called me a 'covid vaccine denier'. Seems like you're implying that I'm not acting in good faith. It's like you're looking for people that fit your preconceptions, and shoehorning me into it. That's prejudice, plain and simple. Chill out.
        robbiep 5y ago
        > No, there's a tone of 'exactly how dead is dead'. If you look at the other commenter, sometimes doctors jump the gun. No, they don't - you made a misunderstanding which perpetuated a line of questioning which isn't a practical concern. Brain Death + other criteria depending on jurisdiction is a pre-requisite for cadaveric organ donation As to the rest, you have approached this from the perspective of 'prove to me that X doesn't happen' which is perilously close to that of the antivax/antiscience brigades. I apologise for thinking the worst of you but I wasn't the only one which perhaps reflects on the approach you have taken in your line of questioning in these highly polarised times
        generalizations 5y ago
        I went back and looked up brain death, and yeah, I made a misunderstanding. Fair enough. > you have approached this from the perspective of 'prove to me that X doesn't happen' There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If I'm thinking of buying a power tool, then 'prove to me that <rapid unplanned disassembly> doesn't happen' is an appropriate tone, and exactly the kind of skeptical questioning that should take place: it's my problem if the problem happens. I don't care what kind of political climate we're in; you don't get to tell me what kinds of questions I'm not supposed to ask.

pnutjam 5y ago

Tell me your a covid vaccine denier without telling me your a covid vaccine denier.