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If that's true, it's only because they altered their spending behavior. That is, you reduced their quality of life.

by hervature 5y ago

bryanlarsen 5y ago
It's true because the median taxpayer pays less tax than the average taxpayer due to the long tail effect.
- hervature 5y ago
  You don't seem to understand that this has nothing to do with the actual payment of taxes. Businesses don't pay for the tax on cigarettes, it is passed directly to the consumer. The elasticity of demand can be such that the consumer just incurs $1,000 higher costs. So the $1,000 in payments don't provide you a benefit, it merely allows you to live the same life.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    The average consumer has $1000 higher costs and a $1000 cheque. You're right, it's a wash. But 80% of consumers are below average. The average is skewed by people with private jets, et cetera. Personally, I'm probably above median and below average.
WastingMyTime89 5y ago
> If that's true, it's only because they altered their spending behavior. That’s part of the point of a carbon tax. You want people to alter their spending behaviour to consume things which pollutes less. It’s a potentially small impact on their quality of life now to protect them from a drastic impact to their quality of life later. Of course, the main point remains making local production more viable by actually putting a price on the externalities of offshore production and encouraging research into greener mean of production by shifting the cost/gain ratio.
- hervature 5y ago
  Yes, but it only takes a second to realize that people are going to continue paying for apples from somewhere else. Electronics will come from overseas. What goes away are discretionary items for the poorest portion of the population. So, to prevent this, you need to pay low income people so that they are unaffected. But then you've just created a system with marginal desired effect and tons of dead weight.
  - bryanlarsen 5y ago
    A carbon tariff would improve Canada's implementation significantly. Germany's taking the lead on setting up a tariff club.

If that's true, it's only because they altered their spending behavior. That is, you reduced their quality of life.

bryanlarsen 5y ago

It's true because the median taxpayer pays less tax than the average taxpayer due to the long tail effect.

hervature 5y ago
You don't seem to understand that this has nothing to do with the actual payment of taxes. Businesses don't pay for the tax on cigarettes, it is passed directly to the consumer. The elasticity of demand can be such that the consumer just incurs $1,000 higher costs. So the $1,000 in payments don't provide you a benefit, it merely allows you to live the same life.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  The average consumer has $1000 higher costs and a $1000 cheque. You're right, it's a wash. But 80% of consumers are below average. The average is skewed by people with private jets, et cetera. Personally, I'm probably above median and below average.

WastingMyTime89 5y ago

> If that's true, it's only because they altered their spending behavior. That’s part of the point of a carbon tax. You want people to alter their spending behaviour to consume things which pollutes less. It’s a potentially small impact on their quality of life now to protect them from a drastic impact to their quality of life later. Of course, the main point remains making local production more viable by actually putting a price on the externalities of offshore production and encouraging research into greener mean of production by shifting the cost/gain ratio.

hervature 5y ago
Yes, but it only takes a second to realize that people are going to continue paying for apples from somewhere else. Electronics will come from overseas. What goes away are discretionary items for the poorest portion of the population. So, to prevent this, you need to pay low income people so that they are unaffected. But then you've just created a system with marginal desired effect and tons of dead weight.
- bryanlarsen 5y ago
  A carbon tariff would improve Canada's implementation significantly. Germany's taking the lead on setting up a tariff club.