5 ms·

First off, not a democrat. Secondly, Republicans concretely instrumented and benefited from the CRT media moral panic. Not "painting" anyone, simply stating fac

First off, not a democrat. Secondly, Republicans concretely instrumented and benefited from the CRT media moral panic. Not "painting" anyone, simply stating facts. https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conse...

nverno 5y ago
My comment was about democrats on the whole (and republicans) making it an us vs. them thing, not you personally.
rsj_hn 5y ago
It wasn't Republicans who thought it a good idea to constantly tell white schoolboys that they are "oppressors". If a political party can't take such virulent institutionalized hate and make political hay out of it, then it's not a political party worth keeping.
- omegaworks 5y ago
  > It wasn't Republicans who thought it a good idea to constantly tell white schoolboys that they are "oppressors". Show me who's constantly telling white schoolboys they are oppressors and not that they are protected[1] by every institution we have[2]? It's an entirely invented self-victimization. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/stanford-rape-case-judge/487415/ https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/stanford-ra... 2. https://www.wymt.com/2020/08/28/nick-sandmann-joins-senate-majority-leader-mitch-mcconnells-campaign-team/ https://www.wymt.com/2020/08/28/nick-sandmann-joins-senate-m...
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    You don't know what's going on in schools? Or have you just internalized this oppression narrative so much that you don't think there is any reason to oppose it? "Teachers who had light skin were placed into a “white caucus” group and asked to “remember” that we are “White” and “to take responsibility for [our] power and privilege.” D-E’s racial segregation of educators, aimed at leading us to rethink of ourselves as oppressors, was regressive and demeaning to us as individuals with our own moral compass and human agency."[1] Really this leaked out during the pandemic when schools went to zoom and parents saw what their kids were being taught. That is what created the outrage. Check out some of the data gathered by concerned parents and other whistleblowers: [1] https://www.fairforall.org/profiles-in-courage/dwight-englewood-whistleblower/ https://www.fairforall.org/profiles-in-courage/dwight-englew... https://ctmirror.org/2021/09/23/ct-educators-share-what-is-being-taught-in-their-classrooms-amid-growing-outrage-about-critical-race-theory/ https://ctmirror.org/2021/09/23/ct-educators-share-what-is-b... https://www.momsforliberty.org/ https://www.momsforliberty.org/ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9490203/Parent-57-000-year-NYC-school-fired-teacher-criticizes-Critical-Race-Theory-lessons.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9490203/Parent-57-0... Here is testimony from dissident teachers complaining that they are being forced to teach this social justice narrative and that they are being policed even in their personal lives and private communication, complaining about the climate of fear and authoritarianism: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/23/teacher-pushes-back-against-k-12-critical-race-theory-indoctrination/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/23/teacher-p... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBlgIA3K24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBlgIA3K24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrOl2OFdcR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrOl2OFdcR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udc1gLW8u6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udc1gLW8u6g
    - omegaworks 5y ago
      The whole charade falls apart when you actually read what is being passed off as controversial "Critical Race Theory." The CT Mirror article mentions schools are doing utterly banal things like actually discussing Reconstruction and including more diverse authors in their reading lists. As for the Moms For Liberty, just look at the books they're trying to ban: "'Martin Luther King Jr. and the March on Washington' and 'The Story of Ruby Bridges,' about the Black 6-year-old who integrated a Louisiana public school in 1960."[1] What is threatening about Ruby Bridges and MLK? Your DailyMail link doesn't even provide a concrete example of what the school is doing. Just cites a bunch of right-wing grifters and context-free snippets from a pamphlet. As for your YouTube links, it's unsurprising that people are posting exactly the content that the algorithm prioritizes[2]. Make sure to Like and Subscribe! 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/critical-race-theory-roils-tennessee-school-district-2021-09-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/critical-race-theory-roils-... 2. https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-of-youtube-comments-shows-how-its-turning-people-onto-the-alt-right/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-o...
      - rsj_hn 5y ago
        So you discount the testimony of teachers because youtube has an algorithm, and you discount the oppression narrative quotes because you label the source as "astroturf" and you discount the actual school materials leaked by whistleblowers because -- oh that one was ignored. Look, I get the strategy of smearing whoever provides information as a way of ignoring the provided data. I just don't understand why you think this strategy is a legitimate form of debate -- it's not.
        PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        The only strategy that was engaged in there was (a) the time honored HN tradition of noting that the plural of anecdote is not data and (b) noting that there's nearly always more context to any leaked document or covertly recorded video, and the context frequently doesn't line up with what the party pushing the material is trying to say.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    I don't think you can make a good faith claim that straight white boys are being "protected by every institution we have" in the age of diversity quotas, gifted program elimination, affirmative action in college applications...etc You can pretend that all of this is justified because of so called privilege, but ultimately you are also discriminating against white boys who are potentially underprivileged for a multitude of other reasons. It is tacitly racist to effectively presume that all white boys are trust fund babies from loving homes who deserve a handicap for the color of their skin. No more valid than assuming that all black men are violent and/or ignorant because of crime statistics and deserve unequal treatment before the law. To poor white families, all of these initiatives are in fact oppression. There is very little so called privilege in appalachia, for example. Hardly a self-invented victimization - and continuing to insist otherwise is evidently costing the democratic party votes. Rightly so in my humble opinion.
    - omegaworks 5y ago
      Again, you can't seem to point me at anyone telling white schoolboys they are oppressors. Public schooling, one of the few institutions that actually values and reaches Appalachian folks[1], has been under attack by exactly the forces behind the latest "critical race theory" boogeyman. If you actually gave a damn about folks in poverty you wouldn't be shilling for the latest fad attack on schools, the list of which you've nicely outlined. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/06/us/west-virginia-teachers-strike-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/06/us/west-virginia-teachers...
      - twofornone 5y ago
        What do you want, a source that literally uses the term "oppression"? Does CRT not posit that all inequities in our society are a result of white supremacist oppression? Is the point of privilege not to imply that those who have it must forgo equal treatment in order to correct for historical oppression? And if white boys fail to do enough to combat this white supremacist, oppressive system, is the implication not that they are furthering this supposed oppression? >the latest "critical race theory" boogeyman. First, I don't know how else to repeat this, the fact that young white boys are being singled out for their race and shamed into atoning for their privilege is emphatically not a boogeyman. It's happening. Second, being opposed to racist doctrine being taught in schools to children is not equivalent to attacking public schooling in general. Maybe public schools are under attack because CRT inspired doctrine is offensive to parents of white males, when it does not even allow debate over the premise that all social inequities stem from white male racism, aka oppression. This is not the way to end racism, it will only breed reactionary white supremacy. Again, if you are accusing white boys of inheriting privilege from an oppressive white supremacist system then you are obviously implying that if they do not actively work against this system, they are acting as oppressors. Your argument is disingenuous. But at least we've seemingly moved past the lie that "CRT isn't being taught in schools".

nverno 5y ago

My comment was about democrats on the whole (and republicans) making it an us vs. them thing, not you personally.

rsj_hn 5y ago

It wasn't Republicans who thought it a good idea to constantly tell white schoolboys that they are "oppressors". If a political party can't take such virulent institutionalized hate and make political hay out of it, then it's not a political party worth keeping.

omegaworks 5y ago
> It wasn't Republicans who thought it a good idea to constantly tell white schoolboys that they are "oppressors". Show me who's constantly telling white schoolboys they are oppressors and not that they are protected[1] by every institution we have[2]? It's an entirely invented self-victimization. 1. https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/stanford-rape-case-judge/487415/ https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2016/06/stanford-ra... 2. https://www.wymt.com/2020/08/28/nick-sandmann-joins-senate-majority-leader-mitch-mcconnells-campaign-team/ https://www.wymt.com/2020/08/28/nick-sandmann-joins-senate-m...
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  You don't know what's going on in schools? Or have you just internalized this oppression narrative so much that you don't think there is any reason to oppose it? "Teachers who had light skin were placed into a “white caucus” group and asked to “remember” that we are “White” and “to take responsibility for [our] power and privilege.” D-E’s racial segregation of educators, aimed at leading us to rethink of ourselves as oppressors, was regressive and demeaning to us as individuals with our own moral compass and human agency."[1] Really this leaked out during the pandemic when schools went to zoom and parents saw what their kids were being taught. That is what created the outrage. Check out some of the data gathered by concerned parents and other whistleblowers: [1] https://www.fairforall.org/profiles-in-courage/dwight-englewood-whistleblower/ https://www.fairforall.org/profiles-in-courage/dwight-englew... https://ctmirror.org/2021/09/23/ct-educators-share-what-is-being-taught-in-their-classrooms-amid-growing-outrage-about-critical-race-theory/ https://ctmirror.org/2021/09/23/ct-educators-share-what-is-b... https://www.momsforliberty.org/ https://www.momsforliberty.org/ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9490203/Parent-57-000-year-NYC-school-fired-teacher-criticizes-Critical-Race-Theory-lessons.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9490203/Parent-57-0... Here is testimony from dissident teachers complaining that they are being forced to teach this social justice narrative and that they are being policed even in their personal lives and private communication, complaining about the climate of fear and authoritarianism: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/23/teacher-pushes-back-against-k-12-critical-race-theory-indoctrination/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/06/23/teacher-p... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBlgIA3K24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJBlgIA3K24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrOl2OFdcR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrOl2OFdcR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udc1gLW8u6g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udc1gLW8u6g
  - omegaworks 5y ago
    The whole charade falls apart when you actually read what is being passed off as controversial "Critical Race Theory." The CT Mirror article mentions schools are doing utterly banal things like actually discussing Reconstruction and including more diverse authors in their reading lists. As for the Moms For Liberty, just look at the books they're trying to ban: "'Martin Luther King Jr. and the March on Washington' and 'The Story of Ruby Bridges,' about the Black 6-year-old who integrated a Louisiana public school in 1960."[1] What is threatening about Ruby Bridges and MLK? Your DailyMail link doesn't even provide a concrete example of what the school is doing. Just cites a bunch of right-wing grifters and context-free snippets from a pamphlet. As for your YouTube links, it's unsurprising that people are posting exactly the content that the algorithm prioritizes[2]. Make sure to Like and Subscribe! 1. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/critical-race-theory-roils-tennessee-school-district-2021-09-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/critical-race-theory-roils-... 2. https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-of-youtube-comments-shows-how-its-turning-people-onto-the-alt-right/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-o...
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      So you discount the testimony of teachers because youtube has an algorithm, and you discount the oppression narrative quotes because you label the source as "astroturf" and you discount the actual school materials leaked by whistleblowers because -- oh that one was ignored. Look, I get the strategy of smearing whoever provides information as a way of ignoring the provided data. I just don't understand why you think this strategy is a legitimate form of debate -- it's not.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        The only strategy that was engaged in there was (a) the time honored HN tradition of noting that the plural of anecdote is not data and (b) noting that there's nearly always more context to any leaked document or covertly recorded video, and the context frequently doesn't line up with what the party pushing the material is trying to say.
- twofornone 5y ago
  I don't think you can make a good faith claim that straight white boys are being "protected by every institution we have" in the age of diversity quotas, gifted program elimination, affirmative action in college applications...etc You can pretend that all of this is justified because of so called privilege, but ultimately you are also discriminating against white boys who are potentially underprivileged for a multitude of other reasons. It is tacitly racist to effectively presume that all white boys are trust fund babies from loving homes who deserve a handicap for the color of their skin. No more valid than assuming that all black men are violent and/or ignorant because of crime statistics and deserve unequal treatment before the law. To poor white families, all of these initiatives are in fact oppression. There is very little so called privilege in appalachia, for example. Hardly a self-invented victimization - and continuing to insist otherwise is evidently costing the democratic party votes. Rightly so in my humble opinion.
  - omegaworks 5y ago
    Again, you can't seem to point me at anyone telling white schoolboys they are oppressors. Public schooling, one of the few institutions that actually values and reaches Appalachian folks[1], has been under attack by exactly the forces behind the latest "critical race theory" boogeyman. If you actually gave a damn about folks in poverty you wouldn't be shilling for the latest fad attack on schools, the list of which you've nicely outlined. 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/06/us/west-virginia-teachers-strike-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/06/us/west-virginia-teachers...
    - twofornone 5y ago
      What do you want, a source that literally uses the term "oppression"? Does CRT not posit that all inequities in our society are a result of white supremacist oppression? Is the point of privilege not to imply that those who have it must forgo equal treatment in order to correct for historical oppression? And if white boys fail to do enough to combat this white supremacist, oppressive system, is the implication not that they are furthering this supposed oppression? >the latest "critical race theory" boogeyman. First, I don't know how else to repeat this, the fact that young white boys are being singled out for their race and shamed into atoning for their privilege is emphatically not a boogeyman. It's happening. Second, being opposed to racist doctrine being taught in schools to children is not equivalent to attacking public schooling in general. Maybe public schools are under attack because CRT inspired doctrine is offensive to parents of white males, when it does not even allow debate over the premise that all social inequities stem from white male racism, aka oppression. This is not the way to end racism, it will only breed reactionary white supremacy. Again, if you are accusing white boys of inheriting privilege from an oppressive white supremacist system then you are obviously implying that if they do not actively work against this system, they are acting as oppressors. Your argument is disingenuous. But at least we've seemingly moved past the lie that "CRT isn't being taught in schools".