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>In the US that bandwidth is from conservative to very conservative. The democrats are a right wing party. This depends heavily on how you measure left vs righ

>In the US that bandwidth is from conservative to very conservative. The democrats are a right wing party. This depends heavily on how you measure left vs right. Immigration, abortion, culture war issues(woke/anti-work/anti-racism), criminal justice, covid response, affirmative action. The line that separates left from right can be drawn in very different places depending on the locality.

fleddr 5y ago
True, it depends on how you measure things, and I was speaking mostly in comparison to western Europe. Case in point, the right wing party in the Netherlands (VVD) that has ruled for a long time now, is fully in favor of a livable minimum wage, universal healthcare, accessible education, advanced safety nets for the unemployed and disabled. The issue of abortion has been solved in the 70s. They may tweak these systems to be more bare bones, but don't want to abolish them. So that's our right wing. Far more progressive than the US democrats, which in this comparison would even come close to the far right. So the perspective matters, but to me there's one absolute point of view: without a livable wage and universal healthcare, the very word "progressive" shouldn't even be used. Without this foundation, you're OK with letting working people starve, or to let a sick person go bankrupt or die. Many countries wouldn't even call these basics progressive or left wing, they are found in deeply capitalistic and conservative societies across the world. The woke in the US are an interesting case. They really are left wing, right now embedded in a democratic party that is comparably conservative. I smell conflict on the horizon.
skinnymuch 5y ago
The Dem and republican establishment both are head over heels for neoliberalism. There’s stuff that separates them. Still makes both of them conservative. Perhaps with such Overton window movement you can say it isn’t so.

fleddr 5y ago

True, it depends on how you measure things, and I was speaking mostly in comparison to western Europe. Case in point, the right wing party in the Netherlands (VVD) that has ruled for a long time now, is fully in favor of a livable minimum wage, universal healthcare, accessible education, advanced safety nets for the unemployed and disabled. The issue of abortion has been solved in the 70s. They may tweak these systems to be more bare bones, but don't want to abolish them. So that's our right wing. Far more progressive than the US democrats, which in this comparison would even come close to the far right. So the perspective matters, but to me there's one absolute point of view: without a livable wage and universal healthcare, the very word "progressive" shouldn't even be used. Without this foundation, you're OK with letting working people starve, or to let a sick person go bankrupt or die. Many countries wouldn't even call these basics progressive or left wing, they are found in deeply capitalistic and conservative societies across the world. The woke in the US are an interesting case. They really are left wing, right now embedded in a democratic party that is comparably conservative. I smell conflict on the horizon.

skinnymuch 5y ago

The Dem and republican establishment both are head over heels for neoliberalism. There’s stuff that separates them. Still makes both of them conservative. Perhaps with such Overton window movement you can say it isn’t so.