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Decades later, we’re still hearing “crypto is a bubble.” I’m still waiting for that to be true. I’m sorry there’s demand for popular hardware. That’s how market

Decades later, we’re still hearing “crypto is a bubble.” I’m still waiting for that to be true. I’m sorry there’s demand for popular hardware. That’s how markets work. Green dot / prepaid gift cards used to be (and still are) accepted as payment for many of these scams. This isn’t a crypto problem. The environmental claims are all FUD. None of them hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Getting scammed sucks, but that’s a social problem, not a crypto problem.

ashtonkem 5y ago
Decades later and I’m still waiting for a use case for crypto. I’ve yet to see a legal use case other than “number go up”. If something has no actual use case and still continues to rise in price, then that seems like a bubble to me. > The environmental claims are all FUD. This is hilariously unpersuasive. Not even a hint of an argument, just “please ignore the TWh behind the curtain”.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  ETH is switching to proof-of-stake. Although the acronym is humorously "POS," it will solve the environmental concerns.
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    It’ll be great if they do that, but I’m not gonna hold my breath. Meanwhile Etherium seems extremely bubbly to me too. At first smart contracts was the only thing that made any sense to me (bitcoin struck me as goldbug nonsense early on), but over the years it seems like it’s mostly used for gambling and making tokens. Nothing that couldn’t be done more efficiently and conveniently off the chain, especially since the oracle problem always looms large over any given hypothetical use case. At least if they go to POS it’ll be less wasteful.
- neb_b 5y ago
  fast and low cost remittance is a pretty good use case
oriki 5y ago
> Decades later, we're still hearing "crypto is a bubble." I'm still waiting for that to be true. Decades? With an S? It's barely been 10 years since Bitcoin's public release and that's ignoring the fact that it wasn't particularly popular (and nowhere near as valuable) for another couple of years. Other cryptocurrencies wouldn't come into their own for another couple of years after Bitcoin, either. For reference, the dot-com bubble began roughly in 1995 and had popped by 2003. Crypto, especially with the fact that it picked up in value an incredible amount in 2020, is a prime candidate for being a bubble. > I'm sorry there's demand for popular hardware. That's how markets work. And the actual demand is being exacerbated by the somewhat artificial demand crypto creates. It also likely means that if crypto is a bubble and it pops, there's going to be a glut of pre-owned crypto-abused graphics cards flooding the market. All of this is definitely a knock-on effect of cryptocurrencies booming. > The environmental claims are all FUD. None of them hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Would you like to back this claim up with anything? The way proof-of-work crypto works demands computation, which demands power. Imagine if somebody did take this entire pallet of GPUs and start mining cryptocurrency with it; that'd be a pretty good amount of power consumption. Tack on the fact that there are multiple cryptocurrencies and a lot more than just a trailer full of GPUs working on mining them around the world, plus the fact that those GPUs are unlikely to be as efficient as the latest, and you've got a lot of power consumption. Obviously, I'm not doing the math here, but just thinking about the (apparently hypothetical) power consumption of something like Etherium or Bitcoin is enough to raise red flags in my mind.
- WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
  > pre-owned crypto-abused graphics cards flooding the market. This is the only part I disagree with. Most miners undervolt their cards to minimize heat and lower cooling costs... I'm cool with the rest of your post. Mining cards are probably fine to use for years and will probably destroy the markets if crypto explodes.
  - kuschku 5y ago
    Yeah but that's not great either. Such a situation risks driving the manufacturers to the brink of bankruptcy. Nvidia is selling GPUs without output capability to miners to avoid exactly that scenario already.

ashtonkem 5y ago

Decades later and I’m still waiting for a use case for crypto. I’ve yet to see a legal use case other than “number go up”. If something has no actual use case and still continues to rise in price, then that seems like a bubble to me. > The environmental claims are all FUD. This is hilariously unpersuasive. Not even a hint of an argument, just “please ignore the TWh behind the curtain”.

whatshisface 5y ago
ETH is switching to proof-of-stake. Although the acronym is humorously "POS," it will solve the environmental concerns.
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  It’ll be great if they do that, but I’m not gonna hold my breath. Meanwhile Etherium seems extremely bubbly to me too. At first smart contracts was the only thing that made any sense to me (bitcoin struck me as goldbug nonsense early on), but over the years it seems like it’s mostly used for gambling and making tokens. Nothing that couldn’t be done more efficiently and conveniently off the chain, especially since the oracle problem always looms large over any given hypothetical use case. At least if they go to POS it’ll be less wasteful.
neb_b 5y ago
fast and low cost remittance is a pretty good use case

oriki 5y ago

> Decades later, we're still hearing "crypto is a bubble." I'm still waiting for that to be true. Decades? With an S? It's barely been 10 years since Bitcoin's public release and that's ignoring the fact that it wasn't particularly popular (and nowhere near as valuable) for another couple of years. Other cryptocurrencies wouldn't come into their own for another couple of years after Bitcoin, either. For reference, the dot-com bubble began roughly in 1995 and had popped by 2003. Crypto, especially with the fact that it picked up in value an incredible amount in 2020, is a prime candidate for being a bubble. > I'm sorry there's demand for popular hardware. That's how markets work. And the actual demand is being exacerbated by the somewhat artificial demand crypto creates. It also likely means that if crypto is a bubble and it pops, there's going to be a glut of pre-owned crypto-abused graphics cards flooding the market. All of this is definitely a knock-on effect of cryptocurrencies booming. > The environmental claims are all FUD. None of them hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Would you like to back this claim up with anything? The way proof-of-work crypto works demands computation, which demands power. Imagine if somebody did take this entire pallet of GPUs and start mining cryptocurrency with it; that'd be a pretty good amount of power consumption. Tack on the fact that there are multiple cryptocurrencies and a lot more than just a trailer full of GPUs working on mining them around the world, plus the fact that those GPUs are unlikely to be as efficient as the latest, and you've got a lot of power consumption. Obviously, I'm not doing the math here, but just thinking about the (apparently hypothetical) power consumption of something like Etherium or Bitcoin is enough to raise red flags in my mind.

WrtCdEvrydy 5y ago
> pre-owned crypto-abused graphics cards flooding the market. This is the only part I disagree with. Most miners undervolt their cards to minimize heat and lower cooling costs... I'm cool with the rest of your post. Mining cards are probably fine to use for years and will probably destroy the markets if crypto explodes.
- kuschku 5y ago
  Yeah but that's not great either. Such a situation risks driving the manufacturers to the brink of bankruptcy. Nvidia is selling GPUs without output capability to miners to avoid exactly that scenario already.