6 ms·

This seems like a nasty move from EVGA to shift the downside onto whoever ends up unknowingly buying these cards on eBay. It’s weird, they normally seem like a

This seems like a nasty move from EVGA to shift the downside onto whoever ends up unknowingly buying these cards on eBay. It’s weird, they normally seem like a company with a decent customer focus, and it’s not like this move is going to make any difference to their loss from the shipment, it just screws customers.

holografix 5y ago
They are tackling the demand side of what could become a very lucrative business for thieves. If people are scared away from buying “dodgy back of the van” GPUs then thieves have no incentive to steal them.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Except it's not the back of a van, it's places like eBay, just about the only places you can find cards, including that majority that are not stolen. I've read through enough reasoning here that I'm not sure what the right answer is-- from a business and customer-friendly standpoint. But I think there's more gray are involved than with items that are readily available through normal retail channels. Then again, these stolen cards may be earmarked for crypto mining operations by organized crime, and then the issue warranties to those who knowingly use stolen goods is much less grey.
- ant6n 5y ago
  People still steal iPhones although they are essentially bricks.
fhood 5y ago
Pretty much every company would do something like this. No reason not to discourage people from buying.
MrFoof 5y ago
I've sold two GPUs (as I've upgraded -- no mining unless Dward Fortress and RimWorld counts) in the past few months on eBay. One shipped to an eBay freight forwarder and ultimately to a buyer in Qatar. One shipped to an eBay freight forwarder and ultimately to a buyer in Kazakhstan. Gamers aren't the ones paying huge markups on eBay. These aren't going to be warranty registered.
camhart 5y ago
I agree... EVGA needs to make a way possible for customers to identify which cards are stolen or not at a bare minimum.
- teawrecks 5y ago
  "you can also check the serial number at the EVGA Warranty Check page to see if it is affected."
  - amatecha 5y ago
    Right, that's kinda difficult to do when you don't yet have the GPU in your possession. Why don't they post a list of serials of the stolen cards? I assume every shipment contains a list of the serial#s of the devices in the respective shipment?
  - camhart 5y ago
    How do I do this before I click "buy" off amazon/newegg/ebay/etc?
    - mschuster91 5y ago
      If I were EVGA, I'd contact eBay to flag all sales of the stolen GPU models, and that providing the serial number is required for the listing to be accepted.
      - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
        eBay has little incentive to comply with that though.
        iamstupidsimple 5y ago
        It's literally illegal to knowingly receive or facilitate the sale of stolen goods.
teawrecks 5y ago
I think their goal is to reduce demand for stolen cards, thereby reducing incentive to steal them.
angulardragon03 5y ago
Honestly I disagree with this. They are refusing to honour warranty claims on the stolen cards, which given the situation is totally fair. The alternative for them is exacerbating the financial losses caused by the theft by offering free repairs/replacements on a product that they already haven’t generated any revenue on.
- TheJoeMan 5y ago
  How could a customer tell before buying from EBay though? No sellers going to let you try to register the serial so the end customer would get screwed.
  - asguy 5y ago
    You don't need to register it. You can just do a warranty check. Asking for a serial number is probably a good idea at this point, considering the counterfeit market.
  - spaced-out 5y ago
    That's the risk you take buying things from randos on EBay. Buy from authorized resellers if you don't want this to happen.
    - KingMachiavelli 5y ago
      You literally can't buy cards from most authorized resellers ATM and Evga is aware of that fact.
      - acdha 5y ago
        That makes it _more_ rather than less risky to buy from random people on eBay because they know that you're desperate, allowing them to charge more and figure someone will buy without doing too much diligence about the seller. Think about how people have received defective parts, or even things reflashed to list a different model. When the market is tight like this, those abuses become that much more tempting.
paxys 5y ago
This entire post seems pretty unnecessary. Not honoring warranty for products bought from unauthorized retailers is pretty standard in the industry. People buying graphics cards from the back of someone's truck or an eBay scalper are well aware of that. And are they implying they will take legal action if you buy one of these cards? Not like they weren't insured anyways.
- mleonhard 5y ago
  > Not honoring warranty for products bought from unauthorized retailers is pretty standard in the industry. USA is a free market. Everyone is authorized all the time to sell every safe product. The term "authorized reseller" is a linguistic manipulation which benefits manufacturers at the expense of everyone else in society. Warranty goes with the product until it is used. Companies cannot refuse to honor a warranty because they dislike the person who sold it to you. Because eVGA did not sell the stolen cards, business laws do not apply to eVGA's dealings with holders of the cards. Therefore eVGA does not have to honor any warranty that would have applied to the cards if eVGA had sold them (to anyone). I wrote a bit more about this in [0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24426635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24426635
  - MichaelZuo 5y ago
    Many states certainly do not have free markets for new automobiles.
    - TMWNN 5y ago
      Yes, but that is because those states have passed laws specifically prohibiting automakers from directly selling to customers. Those laws were enacted long ago to protect auto dealers (as opposed to some sort of anti-Tesla maneuver). Such laws do not exist for most other goods.
- dahart 5y ago
  The post isn’t intended to harm unwitting buyers. The post is sending a message to the thieves, before they try to sell the cards. Should they try anyway, educating buyers to watch out for stolen goods is a great idea that will make the cards harder to sell if it works.
wmf 5y ago
OTOH to do otherwise would send a message that it's open season to steal their inventory.
bsder 5y ago
I think the announcement is more so that people will report the cards if they pop up somewhere. EVGA can't sell the cards as new even if they recover them, so I suspect that EVGA will let people keep the cards if they cooperate. The goal is to find the chain of thieves. And the best way to do that is make things more public, not less.
whoknowswhat11 5y ago
Uhh - that's pretty normal. If I buy my full frame Nikon off craigslist - no warrenty comes with this. "nasty move". Only on HN would this even be an issue. Most places, if you don't buy from an authorized dealer - no warranty. My HVAC system was the same way. If you bought grey market / off market - no equipment warranty. Same thing with solar warranty.
- kuschku 5y ago
  That's a very weird perspective. I bought my monitor, camera, lenses, etc all second hand, and obviously I've got warranty nontheless. Manufacturer Warranty is unaffected by resale, no matter the reseller. And if the seller is a commercial reseller, I get 12 months of Retailer Warranty on top, too. (I love in the EU). The concept that warranty would suddenly be void due to "unauthorized" resellers or retailers is very weird.
throwaway1777 5y ago
Presumably the idea is someone will find one of the cards for sale and then report it leading to finding the thieves.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
I think they're trying to dissuade anyone from purchasing the cards from third parties to disincentivize future theft. They're a very appealing item to steal right now... small, hard to get, expensive, no real security in the supply chain (unlike trying to steal money or gold).
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
Assuming customers notice this quickly after buying (e.g. by trying to register their card within some short deadline, not sure what the policies are), they should be covered by buyer protection.

holografix 5y ago

They are tackling the demand side of what could become a very lucrative business for thieves. If people are scared away from buying “dodgy back of the van” GPUs then thieves have no incentive to steal them.

ineedasername 5y ago
Except it's not the back of a van, it's places like eBay, just about the only places you can find cards, including that majority that are not stolen. I've read through enough reasoning here that I'm not sure what the right answer is-- from a business and customer-friendly standpoint. But I think there's more gray are involved than with items that are readily available through normal retail channels. Then again, these stolen cards may be earmarked for crypto mining operations by organized crime, and then the issue warranties to those who knowingly use stolen goods is much less grey.
ant6n 5y ago
People still steal iPhones although they are essentially bricks.

fhood 5y ago

Pretty much every company would do something like this. No reason not to discourage people from buying.

MrFoof 5y ago

I've sold two GPUs (as I've upgraded -- no mining unless Dward Fortress and RimWorld counts) in the past few months on eBay. One shipped to an eBay freight forwarder and ultimately to a buyer in Qatar. One shipped to an eBay freight forwarder and ultimately to a buyer in Kazakhstan. Gamers aren't the ones paying huge markups on eBay. These aren't going to be warranty registered.

camhart 5y ago

I agree... EVGA needs to make a way possible for customers to identify which cards are stolen or not at a bare minimum.

teawrecks 5y ago
"you can also check the serial number at the EVGA Warranty Check page to see if it is affected."
- amatecha 5y ago
  Right, that's kinda difficult to do when you don't yet have the GPU in your possession. Why don't they post a list of serials of the stolen cards? I assume every shipment contains a list of the serial#s of the devices in the respective shipment?
- camhart 5y ago
  How do I do this before I click "buy" off amazon/newegg/ebay/etc?
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    If I were EVGA, I'd contact eBay to flag all sales of the stolen GPU models, and that providing the serial number is required for the listing to be accepted.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
      eBay has little incentive to comply with that though.
      - iamstupidsimple 5y ago
        It's literally illegal to knowingly receive or facilitate the sale of stolen goods.

teawrecks 5y ago

I think their goal is to reduce demand for stolen cards, thereby reducing incentive to steal them.

angulardragon03 5y ago

Honestly I disagree with this. They are refusing to honour warranty claims on the stolen cards, which given the situation is totally fair. The alternative for them is exacerbating the financial losses caused by the theft by offering free repairs/replacements on a product that they already haven’t generated any revenue on.

TheJoeMan 5y ago
How could a customer tell before buying from EBay though? No sellers going to let you try to register the serial so the end customer would get screwed.
- asguy 5y ago
  You don't need to register it. You can just do a warranty check. Asking for a serial number is probably a good idea at this point, considering the counterfeit market.
- spaced-out 5y ago
  That's the risk you take buying things from randos on EBay. Buy from authorized resellers if you don't want this to happen.
  - KingMachiavelli 5y ago
    You literally can't buy cards from most authorized resellers ATM and Evga is aware of that fact.
    - acdha 5y ago
      That makes it _more_ rather than less risky to buy from random people on eBay because they know that you're desperate, allowing them to charge more and figure someone will buy without doing too much diligence about the seller. Think about how people have received defective parts, or even things reflashed to list a different model. When the market is tight like this, those abuses become that much more tempting.

paxys 5y ago

This entire post seems pretty unnecessary. Not honoring warranty for products bought from unauthorized retailers is pretty standard in the industry. People buying graphics cards from the back of someone's truck or an eBay scalper are well aware of that. And are they implying they will take legal action if you buy one of these cards? Not like they weren't insured anyways.

mleonhard 5y ago
> Not honoring warranty for products bought from unauthorized retailers is pretty standard in the industry. USA is a free market. Everyone is authorized all the time to sell every safe product. The term "authorized reseller" is a linguistic manipulation which benefits manufacturers at the expense of everyone else in society. Warranty goes with the product until it is used. Companies cannot refuse to honor a warranty because they dislike the person who sold it to you. Because eVGA did not sell the stolen cards, business laws do not apply to eVGA's dealings with holders of the cards. Therefore eVGA does not have to honor any warranty that would have applied to the cards if eVGA had sold them (to anyone). I wrote a bit more about this in [0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24426635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24426635
- MichaelZuo 5y ago
  Many states certainly do not have free markets for new automobiles.
  - TMWNN 5y ago
    Yes, but that is because those states have passed laws specifically prohibiting automakers from directly selling to customers. Those laws were enacted long ago to protect auto dealers (as opposed to some sort of anti-Tesla maneuver). Such laws do not exist for most other goods.
dahart 5y ago
The post isn’t intended to harm unwitting buyers. The post is sending a message to the thieves, before they try to sell the cards. Should they try anyway, educating buyers to watch out for stolen goods is a great idea that will make the cards harder to sell if it works.

wmf 5y ago

OTOH to do otherwise would send a message that it's open season to steal their inventory.

bsder 5y ago

I think the announcement is more so that people will report the cards if they pop up somewhere. EVGA can't sell the cards as new even if they recover them, so I suspect that EVGA will let people keep the cards if they cooperate. The goal is to find the chain of thieves. And the best way to do that is make things more public, not less.

whoknowswhat11 5y ago

Uhh - that's pretty normal. If I buy my full frame Nikon off craigslist - no warrenty comes with this. "nasty move". Only on HN would this even be an issue. Most places, if you don't buy from an authorized dealer - no warranty. My HVAC system was the same way. If you bought grey market / off market - no equipment warranty. Same thing with solar warranty.

kuschku 5y ago
That's a very weird perspective. I bought my monitor, camera, lenses, etc all second hand, and obviously I've got warranty nontheless. Manufacturer Warranty is unaffected by resale, no matter the reseller. And if the seller is a commercial reseller, I get 12 months of Retailer Warranty on top, too. (I love in the EU). The concept that warranty would suddenly be void due to "unauthorized" resellers or retailers is very weird.

throwaway1777 5y ago

Presumably the idea is someone will find one of the cards for sale and then report it leading to finding the thieves.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

I think they're trying to dissuade anyone from purchasing the cards from third parties to disincentivize future theft. They're a very appealing item to steal right now... small, hard to get, expensive, no real security in the supply chain (unlike trying to steal money or gold).

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

Assuming customers notice this quickly after buying (e.g. by trying to register their card within some short deadline, not sure what the policies are), they should be covered by buyer protection.