5 ms·

I don't want status quo, but I also don't want them housed. I want the ones that steal, rape, squat in parks, do drugs, sell drugs, defecate in public, and litt

by voz_ 5y ago

I don't want status quo, but I also don't want them housed. I want the ones that steal, rape, squat in parks, do drugs, sell drugs, defecate in public, and litter to all be thrown in jail.

lalaithion 5y ago
So you want the government to house them at taxpayer cost!
- klyrs 5y ago
  Three squares, a roof, and jobs for all the police, judges, guards, and lawyers involved. Oh, and a criminal record to ensure that future employment will be even harder upon their eventual release. And another jail with at least 5,000 beds. Taxes gotta go somewhere, I guess...
- jtbayly 5y ago
  Housed and punished for that vs housed and rewarded for that? I know which I’d pick.
SirSourdough 5y ago
And I want people who lack compassion and consideration housed at the bottom of the ocean, but we can't all win.
- adolph 5y ago
  https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/I-Can-Tolerate-Anything-Except-The-Outgroup https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/I-Can-Tolerate-Anythi...
- nostromo 5y ago
  Is this a paradox? Because it sounds like you may end up there yourself.
  - SirSourdough 5y ago
    Perhaps. But I'd rather be there for lacking compassion for the inconsiderate and intolerant than for punching down at the most vulnerable people in our society. Hopefully I'll at least end up in a different house than the commenter I initially replied to...
  - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
    “Compassion and empathy are the utmost of virtues. If you lack it, you deserve to be cast out from society. Because you lack the compassion I so freely give, you have forfeited the right to receive any from me.” /s
  - irthomasthomas 5y ago
    This must be one of them contradictory ideas which are so popular now. :D
- animal_spirits 5y ago
  Compassion would mean to have love and hope for those who you disagree with, not the desire to throw them in the bottom of the ocean.
  - vkou 5y ago
    Perhaps he is compassionate for people who are not bereft of compassion. His point is about as valid as the parent post's.
spoonjim 5y ago
Are you signing up to pay for that personally?
Fauntleroy 5y ago
The thirst for punishment over improvement ultimately keeps the problem going. Any chance you'd prefer to break the cycle rather than continue it?
advrs 5y ago
Are you suggesting that jail (aka expensive housing funded by the public) is the most effective solution to these crimes/behaviors? For example, do you think the population of people who defecate in public are going to be deterred due to the threat of imprisonment?
- beerandt 5y ago
  Either deterred or jailed, either way you end up with less shit on the street.
argomo 5y ago
Is jail appropriate for litterers? Seems extreme, but I might be able to get behind it. Let's start with the folks who throw fast food wrappers out on the interstate though, not the homeless we wish to criminalize. Throwing them in jail seems like the worst of both worlds... it burns my tax dollars and does nothing to rehabilitate anyone.
- klyrs 5y ago
  That's up to the police to decide. If they don't like a law, they don't enforce it.
  - jackorange 5y ago
    The police don't sentence people to jail.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - klyrs 5y ago
      No, but they do pick who they want to pull over, and for what reason.
      - jackorange 5y ago
        That's their job?
    - namelessoracle 5y ago
      They de facto do. A police officer can arrest you for basically any reason and send you to jail. How long that jail stint lasts depends on what happens after you are arraigned, but you can easily spend a few days in a county jail before the judge shows up after the 3 day weekend to decide if what you were arrested for was legit.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    Selective enforcement is not a good outcome. Any police officer who doesn't enforce a law because they don't like it should be fired.
psadauskas 5y ago
You should watch last weekend's episode of Last Week Tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liptMbjF3EE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liptMbjF3EE
- voz_ 5y ago
  No thank you. He is the tucker carlson of the left. I try to stay away from talking heads that remove all nuance from the debate.
  - psadauskas 5y ago
    I mean, alright, you do you, but the common misconception you're echoing here he very specifically refuted with data and cited sources. One point in particular, it costs a city around $30k/yr per homeless person in emergency medical care and jail facilities, but only ~$10k/yr to give them the proper support and a place to live.
    - voz_ 5y ago
      And what happens when they refuse that support? Or turn it into a drug den? I've lived in SF, and in Seattle for a combined 22 years. I've seen what the ravaging horde of homeless due to the cities there. They turn away housing, and they won't go to shelters. Not because the shelters are degrading, but because they won't let them do drugs there. These people are mentally insane, and unfit for society. Would giving them housing stop them from raping? or defecating inside cars they broke into? It's time to stop pandering to the 0.1% and focus on the 99.9% of us that do participate in society.
  - consumer451 5y ago
    > He is the tucker carlson of the left That is quite an interesting claim. Do you mean because they are leading voices on their supposed political side, or they are equivalent in factual accuracy, or something else? My favorite factoid about Tucker Carson, the leading voice of news analysis in the USA: > Now comes the claim that you can't expect to literally believe the words that come out of Carlson's mouth. And that assertion is not coming from Carlson's critics. It's being made by a federal judge in the Southern District of New York and by Fox News's own lawyers in defending Carlson against accusations of slander. It worked, by the way. [0] I am up to this point unaware of anything clearly nonfactual presented by Oliver. If anything from Oliver exists along the lines of Carlson's extraordinary list of lies [1] I would genuinely be interested to learn about it. I wrote a lot there, but my main question is, how exactly do you see Carlson and Oliver as equivalent? [0] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-... [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=tucker-carlson https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=tucker-c...
kelnos 5y ago
That would probably cost taxpayers more (both in the short and long term) than just housing them and getting them mental health services.

by voz_ 5y ago

I don't want status quo, but I also don't want them housed. I want the ones that steal, rape, squat in parks, do drugs, sell drugs, defecate in public, and litter to all be thrown in jail.

lalaithion 5y ago

So you want the government to house them at taxpayer cost!

klyrs 5y ago
Three squares, a roof, and jobs for all the police, judges, guards, and lawyers involved. Oh, and a criminal record to ensure that future employment will be even harder upon their eventual release. And another jail with at least 5,000 beds. Taxes gotta go somewhere, I guess...
jtbayly 5y ago
Housed and punished for that vs housed and rewarded for that? I know which I’d pick.

SirSourdough 5y ago

And I want people who lack compassion and consideration housed at the bottom of the ocean, but we can't all win.

adolph 5y ago
https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/I-Can-Tolerate-Anything-Except-The-Outgroup https://www.slatestarcodexabridged.com/I-Can-Tolerate-Anythi...
nostromo 5y ago
Is this a paradox? Because it sounds like you may end up there yourself.
- SirSourdough 5y ago
  Perhaps. But I'd rather be there for lacking compassion for the inconsiderate and intolerant than for punching down at the most vulnerable people in our society. Hopefully I'll at least end up in a different house than the commenter I initially replied to...
- BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
  “Compassion and empathy are the utmost of virtues. If you lack it, you deserve to be cast out from society. Because you lack the compassion I so freely give, you have forfeited the right to receive any from me.” /s
- irthomasthomas 5y ago
  This must be one of them contradictory ideas which are so popular now. :D
animal_spirits 5y ago
Compassion would mean to have love and hope for those who you disagree with, not the desire to throw them in the bottom of the ocean.
- vkou 5y ago
  Perhaps he is compassionate for people who are not bereft of compassion. His point is about as valid as the parent post's.

spoonjim 5y ago

Are you signing up to pay for that personally?

Fauntleroy 5y ago

The thirst for punishment over improvement ultimately keeps the problem going. Any chance you'd prefer to break the cycle rather than continue it?

advrs 5y ago

Are you suggesting that jail (aka expensive housing funded by the public) is the most effective solution to these crimes/behaviors? For example, do you think the population of people who defecate in public are going to be deterred due to the threat of imprisonment?

beerandt 5y ago
Either deterred or jailed, either way you end up with less shit on the street.

argomo 5y ago

Is jail appropriate for litterers? Seems extreme, but I might be able to get behind it. Let's start with the folks who throw fast food wrappers out on the interstate though, not the homeless we wish to criminalize. Throwing them in jail seems like the worst of both worlds... it burns my tax dollars and does nothing to rehabilitate anyone.

klyrs 5y ago
That's up to the police to decide. If they don't like a law, they don't enforce it.
- jackorange 5y ago
  The police don't sentence people to jail.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - klyrs 5y ago
    No, but they do pick who they want to pull over, and for what reason.
    - jackorange 5y ago
      That's their job?
  - namelessoracle 5y ago
    They de facto do. A police officer can arrest you for basically any reason and send you to jail. How long that jail stint lasts depends on what happens after you are arraigned, but you can easily spend a few days in a county jail before the judge shows up after the 3 day weekend to decide if what you were arrested for was legit.
- kelnos 5y ago
  Selective enforcement is not a good outcome. Any police officer who doesn't enforce a law because they don't like it should be fired.

psadauskas 5y ago

You should watch last weekend's episode of Last Week Tonight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liptMbjF3EE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liptMbjF3EE

voz_ 5y ago
No thank you. He is the tucker carlson of the left. I try to stay away from talking heads that remove all nuance from the debate.
- psadauskas 5y ago
  I mean, alright, you do you, but the common misconception you're echoing here he very specifically refuted with data and cited sources. One point in particular, it costs a city around $30k/yr per homeless person in emergency medical care and jail facilities, but only ~$10k/yr to give them the proper support and a place to live.
  - voz_ 5y ago
    And what happens when they refuse that support? Or turn it into a drug den? I've lived in SF, and in Seattle for a combined 22 years. I've seen what the ravaging horde of homeless due to the cities there. They turn away housing, and they won't go to shelters. Not because the shelters are degrading, but because they won't let them do drugs there. These people are mentally insane, and unfit for society. Would giving them housing stop them from raping? or defecating inside cars they broke into? It's time to stop pandering to the 0.1% and focus on the 99.9% of us that do participate in society.
- consumer451 5y ago
  > He is the tucker carlson of the left That is quite an interesting claim. Do you mean because they are leading voices on their supposed political side, or they are equivalent in factual accuracy, or something else? My favorite factoid about Tucker Carson, the leading voice of news analysis in the USA: > Now comes the claim that you can't expect to literally believe the words that come out of Carlson's mouth. And that assertion is not coming from Carlson's critics. It's being made by a federal judge in the Southern District of New York and by Fox News's own lawyers in defending Carlson against accusations of slander. It worked, by the way. [0] I am up to this point unaware of anything clearly nonfactual presented by Oliver. If anything from Oliver exists along the lines of Carlson's extraordinary list of lies [1] I would genuinely be interested to learn about it. I wrote a lot there, but my main question is, how exactly do you see Carlson and Oliver as equivalent? [0] https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-... [1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=tucker-carlson https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=tucker-c...

kelnos 5y ago

That would probably cost taxpayers more (both in the short and long term) than just housing them and getting them mental health services.