4 ms·

I'm not up to date on city politics, but I had a friend that used to live in Seattle for a while. She kind of hightailed it outta there once she found a remote

I'm not up to date on city politics, but I had a friend that used to live in Seattle for a while. She kind of hightailed it outta there once she found a remote job because of the homelessness/drug problem. Told me people protested the museum downtown for installing architecture that made setting up homeless tents hostile, and that the city's solution to the drug problem (induced by already decriminalizing hard drugs) is to decriminalize and make drugs more available.

soperj 5y ago
You say that like the war on drugs is the solution? Do you think that any of these people don't use drugs because it's a crime? It's just making their life worse.
- iammisc 5y ago
  > It's just making their life worse. That's quite literally the point. If you talk to any ex-addict, you'll notice they all say that they quit once something that made their life worse forced them to reconsider. At some point you hit rock bottom and then can get your life together.
- twofornone 5y ago
  As I've gotten older I've realized that there's something to be said for the discouraging effect that laws have on certain behaviors. Yes, people are still going to do drugs if they're illegal; but some proportion of the population is less likely to take the risk. Is it enough to justify the drug war? Maybe not. But I don't think it's quite as cut an dry as "legalize all drugs to end drug abuse" or "ban all drugs to end drug use". Perhaps it was only an implementation problem, and the answer lies in saner but still restrictive drug laws. There's no excuse for example for the scheduling of marijuana and mushrooms which precludes research.
  - ajmurmann 5y ago
    I recently learned that drugs have become more dangerous and more damaging not due to customer demand, but because of the war on drugs. You need to transport a lot less fentanyl than cocaine for the same effect strength. Meth also had changed to work without ingredients we have banned. This has made meth much more damaging. I wonder what things would look like if we just took the Portugal route. https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-the-least-of-us/#audio-highlights https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-t...
    - a9h74j 5y ago
      Coincidently, I just listened to this. (Perhaps we saw the same recommendation on HN.) 100% recommend, and the whole podcast approach at econtalk.org is very interesting. Economics plus life-of-the-mind.
      - ajmurmann 5y ago
        Hah, I posted this a about a week ago as well. I'm most delighted about anyone listening to this. It very much changed how I view the problem of homelessness in the US. Also the angle of this being caused by essentially messing with the market is fascinating to me.
        a9h74j 5y ago
        Great. In the meantime I have also heard the following which addresses US homelessness in a somewhat internationally-informed way: Joe Rogan episode #1719 with M. Shellenberger. He does not use the term, but Shellenberger suggests that merely supplying housing, without adjusting other incentives and requirements, could almost be called a consumerist approach: pay the money for a private room for someone and it will magically work.
    - adolph 5y ago
      Also 100% on the Quinones on Econtalk. Another interesting one for an alternative view to the war-on-drugs/decriminalization dichotomy is CSPI: What's Wrong with the West Coast? with Michael Shellenberger Michael Shellenberger is an activist and author. He joins the podcast to talk about his book San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities. He discusses debates around homelessness in San Francisco, the ideology driving the homelessness advocacy community, how the West coast differs from the rest of the world in its treatment of mental illness and addiction, and whether there is hope of political change. https://audioboom.com/posts/7962954-what-s-wrong-with-the-west-coast-with-michael-shellenberger https://audioboom.com/posts/7962954-what-s-wrong-with-the-we...
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-po...
- jterrys 5y ago
  >You say that like the war on drugs is the solution? I'm not saying that at all, that's you putting words in my mouth. >Do you think that any of these people don't use drugs because it's a crime? It's just making their life worse. Ultimately became an irrelevant point of view for my friend, who, fearing for her safety, moved away from Seattle.

soperj 5y ago

You say that like the war on drugs is the solution? Do you think that any of these people don't use drugs because it's a crime? It's just making their life worse.

iammisc 5y ago
> It's just making their life worse. That's quite literally the point. If you talk to any ex-addict, you'll notice they all say that they quit once something that made their life worse forced them to reconsider. At some point you hit rock bottom and then can get your life together.
twofornone 5y ago
As I've gotten older I've realized that there's something to be said for the discouraging effect that laws have on certain behaviors. Yes, people are still going to do drugs if they're illegal; but some proportion of the population is less likely to take the risk. Is it enough to justify the drug war? Maybe not. But I don't think it's quite as cut an dry as "legalize all drugs to end drug abuse" or "ban all drugs to end drug use". Perhaps it was only an implementation problem, and the answer lies in saner but still restrictive drug laws. There's no excuse for example for the scheduling of marijuana and mushrooms which precludes research.
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  I recently learned that drugs have become more dangerous and more damaging not due to customer demand, but because of the war on drugs. You need to transport a lot less fentanyl than cocaine for the same effect strength. Meth also had changed to work without ingredients we have banned. This has made meth much more damaging. I wonder what things would look like if we just took the Portugal route. https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-the-least-of-us/#audio-highlights https://www.econtalk.org/sam-quinones-on-meth-fentanyl-and-t...
  - a9h74j 5y ago
    Coincidently, I just listened to this. (Perhaps we saw the same recommendation on HN.) 100% recommend, and the whole podcast approach at econtalk.org is very interesting. Economics plus life-of-the-mind.
    - ajmurmann 5y ago
      Hah, I posted this a about a week ago as well. I'm most delighted about anyone listening to this. It very much changed how I view the problem of homelessness in the US. Also the angle of this being caused by essentially messing with the market is fascinating to me.
      - a9h74j 5y ago
        Great. In the meantime I have also heard the following which addresses US homelessness in a somewhat internationally-informed way: Joe Rogan episode #1719 with M. Shellenberger. He does not use the term, but Shellenberger suggests that merely supplying housing, without adjusting other incentives and requirements, could almost be called a consumerist approach: pay the money for a private room for someone and it will magically work.
  - adolph 5y ago
    Also 100% on the Quinones on Econtalk. Another interesting one for an alternative view to the war-on-drugs/decriminalization dichotomy is CSPI: What's Wrong with the West Coast? with Michael Shellenberger Michael Shellenberger is an activist and author. He joins the podcast to talk about his book San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities. He discusses debates around homelessness in San Francisco, the ideology driving the homelessness advocacy community, how the West coast differs from the rest of the world in its treatment of mental illness and addiction, and whether there is hope of political change. https://audioboom.com/posts/7962954-what-s-wrong-with-the-west-coast-with-michael-shellenberger https://audioboom.com/posts/7962954-what-s-wrong-with-the-we...
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-po...
jterrys 5y ago
>You say that like the war on drugs is the solution? I'm not saying that at all, that's you putting words in my mouth. >Do you think that any of these people don't use drugs because it's a crime? It's just making their life worse. Ultimately became an irrelevant point of view for my friend, who, fearing for her safety, moved away from Seattle.