4 ms·

Gun control is over in Virginia at least. The Lt. Governor's election campaign was her at a gun range. And Governor Youngkin is also pro-2A. When 25.8% of the

Gun control is over in Virginia at least. The Lt. Governor's election campaign was her at a gun range. And Governor Youngkin is also pro-2A. When 25.8% of the shootings are coming from Chicago which has just 0.8% population, maybe it's time to focus on gangs instead of making life miserable for legal gun owners.

colinmhayes 5y ago
Democrats still control the senate in virginia so I'm not sure gun control is over. Biased because I live in Chicago, but it's legitimately impossible to stop gangs as long as it's possible to get a gun. As soon as someone is arrested there are 5 kids ready to take their place. The only solutions to gun violence here are end poverty or stop guns from out of state from entering the city.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- busymom0 5y ago
  > stop guns from out of state from entering the city Stop letting them use gun control to ignore the underlying issues in the community. ME: Chicago has strict gun control but high gun violence. Gun Control: They get guns from states with loose gun control. ME: But those states don't have the same gun violence Gun Control: Places in Chicago are poor & neglected so there's more violence. ME: BINGO, it's a socioeconomic issue not a gun issue! Last I checked on July 13, Chicago has 25.8% of shootings despite having 0.8% of the population. Mexico has extremely restrictive laws regarding gun possession. There is only one gun store in the entire country, and it takes months of paperwork to have a chance at purchasing one legally. Similar in India. Making guns illegal doesn't stop any of that. In India, underground criminals make the guns out of everyday stuff. And now a days, 3D printing had made this process even easier.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    > Stop letting them use gun control to ignore the underlying issues in the community. I'm glad we agree that poverty is the root cause of gun violence, but realizing that does nothing to stop gun violence. Poverty isn't something that can be solved with the snap of a finger, although I certainly think we are on the right track. What do you think we should do to stop gun violence in the mean time? Nothing is a valid answer, but I don't think it's acceptable to a majority of people in this country.
    - busymom0 5y ago
      The problem isn't simply about poverty/money or racism or past inequities, it's about corruption, gangs, fatherlessness, teacher unions and lack of school choice. Chicago has been fully one party ruled since 1931. Baltimore since 1963, Detroit since 1962 etc and so on. Why has none of the lives improved in these cities and they keep having gang problems? If Chicago hasn't been able to fix anything for almost a century, maybe it's time to either vote for another party or start a new party and vote for them. Related, 13 Baltimore City High Schools, Zero Students Proficient in Math. Baltimore is 2nd in per pupil spending. This is not because the schools dont get enough money. In fact its just about as far away from that as you can get. If despite getting the 2nd more funded, the students still can't do high school math, someone needs to look at what's going on in these schools. https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_city_high_schools_zero_students/ https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_c... https://archive.ph/VfciU https://archive.ph/VfciU http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-census-schools-20130521_1_school-system-per-pupil-spending-districts http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-ce... https://archive.ph/cqIZd https://archive.ph/cqIZd
      - colinmhayes 5y ago
        > Why has none of the lives improved in these cities and they keep having gang problems? Because the people are still poor? > lack of school choice. Most of the poor kids here are in charter schools. > Fatherlessness Agreed this is a major problem, it's mostly caused by poverty. > corruption Absolutely agree this is a huge problem. We tried to solve it by electing an outsider mayor, everyone hates her because she can't get anything done due to obstruction from corrupt politicians. Even if we ended corruption tomorrow, that would only move the end of poverty from many decades away to a few less decades away, not really a solution to gun violence. > gangs We arrested all the gang leaders. Now the gangs are just 10 dudes who went to elementary school together. Without leadership there is no one to stop them from shooting each other, it has made things quite a bit worse imo. As I said it isn't possible to just end gangs, there are always new people to fill the power vacuum.
- subsubzero 5y ago
  You take guns away and they use knives and cleavers. Look to London for what would happen with guns being banned. The solution is to not ban an object but provide opportunities for people. Jobs, education, paths that pave roads to a career. Nothing drives more people to crime than feeling like they are in a hopeless situation.
  - busymom0 5y ago
    > knives and cleavers or vans here in Canada. According to the FBI homicide stats for US, 297 people were murdered by a rifle in 2018 in the US. 1,515 on the other hand murdered with knives, 443 from blunt hammers, 672 with hands, feet: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... EDIT: I specifically stated "rifle" not all guns. Because saying we need to take away all guns is pie in the sky thinking. Dems run on "taking away AR-15" but the stats show that isn't going to achieve anything. In 2008, there were 800k-3 million defensive uses of guns. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29101364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29101364
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      2/3 of murders were with guns. Would people still kill each if they didn't have guns? obviously. Would they do it less? Hard to say since research into gun violence is banned by the government.
      - rsj_hn 5y ago
        > Hard to say since research into gun violence is banned by the government. It's not banned. The government isn't going to fund it, but you've jumped the shark if you think that means it is banned. And part of the reason it's not being funded is that this is political in nature. How do you look at the hundreds of thousands of assaults that were thwarted with guns used in self-defense? Guns are primarily used for self-defense. How do you measure the lives saved? And when an attacker is shot and killed, is that a life saved or a life lost? This is a political debate not a scientific debate. Once you accept that the rapist shot to death and the person who commits suicide as being the same as some random person shot to death, then you've already politicized the work. It's also far outside the purview of the CDC, which is what this "banned" canard is about - the left wanted the CDC to treat "gun violence" as a thing -- like "fist violence" -- or "knife violence" -- why do they always want to classify disagreement as a "disease"? Everything is a "safety" or "health" issue with them, amenable to handing our public policies over to some bureaucrat. Fortunately there was sufficient pushback to block funding of that. That is what your outrage is about. But don't worry, there is a push to classify racism as a disease and have the CDC lab coats study it, so you will get some politicized "public health" research to tide you over. In the meantime, you are welcome to donate to one of the many think-tanks that do these studies on guns, violence, and criminality - of all political persuasions. There are lots of studies even without bringing the public health bureaucracies into the mix.
- madengr 5y ago
  Let the gang members kill each other; good riddance.
- jimmygrapes 5y ago
  I still cannot really fathom this logic. Why would you not want to address WHY guns are used?
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    I do. I'm working hard to end poverty. It takes a long time. Many people will die before the situations that cause gun violence are solved.
    - caeril 5y ago
      What was the homicide rate in the depths of the Great Depression? What is the current homicide rate of rural rust-belt America, with lower per capita incomes than poor urban areas? Poverty isn't the cause. Sorry you've been wasting your time.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
When 15% of world gun deaths are coming from the USA which has just 4.25% of the world population, perhaps it's time to focus on national level issues instead of using excuses.
- busymom0 5y ago
  > gun deaths That's a meaningless stat. The point of my Chicago stat is that vast majority of the shootings are coming from gang members. A gang member shooting another gang member isn't a relevant stat. And shootings in self defence is one of the purposes of owning a gun (though not what the 2A is only for). That's like saying my daughter would be safer to live in my home country India where she may not get shot but she may get raped late at night. Or like saying Afghanistan is safer somehow? Estimated 800,000 to 2.45 million defensive uses of firearms per year in 1993 national survey. https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0798.htm https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0798.htm Another 2008 study by National Academy of Sciences showed 500,000 to more than 3 million "Defensive Use of Guns". Simply having the gun on your or brandishing it prevented crimes from happening. This was in 2008. That numbers is even higher now. Source: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3 https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3 Page 15 of the study talks about the defensive use part. You can download the PDF by using the "guest" option and entering any random email (doesn't have to be real). Another related source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/#7880e35d299a https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-... > "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008." > "In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to six states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Estimates based on CDC’s surveys confirm estimates for the same sets of states based on data from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995). Extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole CDC’s survey data imply that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results." > "One CDC official in the 1990s openly told the Washington Post that his goal was to create a public perception of gun ownership as something “dirty, deadly — and banned.” Given that history, I can’t dismiss Kleck’s critique." How do you propose these people - wives/daughters/elderly/handicapped/living close to cartels/over 800K-3 million defensive uses should defend themselves? Also, U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households, something which is well known for kids to grow up into criminals: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-children-more-likely-than-children-in-other-countries-to-live-with-just-one-parent/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-childre...
sjg007 5y ago
Chicago ain’t in Virginia.
TheCoelacanth 5y ago
Gun control has never been a big thing in VA. Even Democrats are not pushing very hard for it.

colinmhayes 5y ago

Democrats still control the senate in virginia so I'm not sure gun control is over. Biased because I live in Chicago, but it's legitimately impossible to stop gangs as long as it's possible to get a gun. As soon as someone is arrested there are 5 kids ready to take their place. The only solutions to gun violence here are end poverty or stop guns from out of state from entering the city.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
busymom0 5y ago
> stop guns from out of state from entering the city Stop letting them use gun control to ignore the underlying issues in the community. ME: Chicago has strict gun control but high gun violence. Gun Control: They get guns from states with loose gun control. ME: But those states don't have the same gun violence Gun Control: Places in Chicago are poor & neglected so there's more violence. ME: BINGO, it's a socioeconomic issue not a gun issue! Last I checked on July 13, Chicago has 25.8% of shootings despite having 0.8% of the population. Mexico has extremely restrictive laws regarding gun possession. There is only one gun store in the entire country, and it takes months of paperwork to have a chance at purchasing one legally. Similar in India. Making guns illegal doesn't stop any of that. In India, underground criminals make the guns out of everyday stuff. And now a days, 3D printing had made this process even easier.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  > Stop letting them use gun control to ignore the underlying issues in the community. I'm glad we agree that poverty is the root cause of gun violence, but realizing that does nothing to stop gun violence. Poverty isn't something that can be solved with the snap of a finger, although I certainly think we are on the right track. What do you think we should do to stop gun violence in the mean time? Nothing is a valid answer, but I don't think it's acceptable to a majority of people in this country.
  - busymom0 5y ago
    The problem isn't simply about poverty/money or racism or past inequities, it's about corruption, gangs, fatherlessness, teacher unions and lack of school choice. Chicago has been fully one party ruled since 1931. Baltimore since 1963, Detroit since 1962 etc and so on. Why has none of the lives improved in these cities and they keep having gang problems? If Chicago hasn't been able to fix anything for almost a century, maybe it's time to either vote for another party or start a new party and vote for them. Related, 13 Baltimore City High Schools, Zero Students Proficient in Math. Baltimore is 2nd in per pupil spending. This is not because the schools dont get enough money. In fact its just about as far away from that as you can get. If despite getting the 2nd more funded, the students still can't do high school math, someone needs to look at what's going on in these schools. https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_city_high_schools_zero_students/ https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/7bvreb/13_baltimore_c... https://archive.ph/VfciU https://archive.ph/VfciU http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-census-schools-20130521_1_school-system-per-pupil-spending-districts http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-05-21/news/bs-md-ci-ce... https://archive.ph/cqIZd https://archive.ph/cqIZd
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      > Why has none of the lives improved in these cities and they keep having gang problems? Because the people are still poor? > lack of school choice. Most of the poor kids here are in charter schools. > Fatherlessness Agreed this is a major problem, it's mostly caused by poverty. > corruption Absolutely agree this is a huge problem. We tried to solve it by electing an outsider mayor, everyone hates her because she can't get anything done due to obstruction from corrupt politicians. Even if we ended corruption tomorrow, that would only move the end of poverty from many decades away to a few less decades away, not really a solution to gun violence. > gangs We arrested all the gang leaders. Now the gangs are just 10 dudes who went to elementary school together. Without leadership there is no one to stop them from shooting each other, it has made things quite a bit worse imo. As I said it isn't possible to just end gangs, there are always new people to fill the power vacuum.
subsubzero 5y ago
You take guns away and they use knives and cleavers. Look to London for what would happen with guns being banned. The solution is to not ban an object but provide opportunities for people. Jobs, education, paths that pave roads to a career. Nothing drives more people to crime than feeling like they are in a hopeless situation.
- busymom0 5y ago
  > knives and cleavers or vans here in Canada. According to the FBI homicide stats for US, 297 people were murdered by a rifle in 2018 in the US. 1,515 on the other hand murdered with knives, 443 from blunt hammers, 672 with hands, feet: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... EDIT: I specifically stated "rifle" not all guns. Because saying we need to take away all guns is pie in the sky thinking. Dems run on "taking away AR-15" but the stats show that isn't going to achieve anything. In 2008, there were 800k-3 million defensive uses of guns. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29101364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29101364
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    2/3 of murders were with guns. Would people still kill each if they didn't have guns? obviously. Would they do it less? Hard to say since research into gun violence is banned by the government.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      > Hard to say since research into gun violence is banned by the government. It's not banned. The government isn't going to fund it, but you've jumped the shark if you think that means it is banned. And part of the reason it's not being funded is that this is political in nature. How do you look at the hundreds of thousands of assaults that were thwarted with guns used in self-defense? Guns are primarily used for self-defense. How do you measure the lives saved? And when an attacker is shot and killed, is that a life saved or a life lost? This is a political debate not a scientific debate. Once you accept that the rapist shot to death and the person who commits suicide as being the same as some random person shot to death, then you've already politicized the work. It's also far outside the purview of the CDC, which is what this "banned" canard is about - the left wanted the CDC to treat "gun violence" as a thing -- like "fist violence" -- or "knife violence" -- why do they always want to classify disagreement as a "disease"? Everything is a "safety" or "health" issue with them, amenable to handing our public policies over to some bureaucrat. Fortunately there was sufficient pushback to block funding of that. That is what your outrage is about. But don't worry, there is a push to classify racism as a disease and have the CDC lab coats study it, so you will get some politicized "public health" research to tide you over. In the meantime, you are welcome to donate to one of the many think-tanks that do these studies on guns, violence, and criminality - of all political persuasions. There are lots of studies even without bringing the public health bureaucracies into the mix.
madengr 5y ago
Let the gang members kill each other; good riddance.
jimmygrapes 5y ago
I still cannot really fathom this logic. Why would you not want to address WHY guns are used?
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  I do. I'm working hard to end poverty. It takes a long time. Many people will die before the situations that cause gun violence are solved.
  - caeril 5y ago
    What was the homicide rate in the depths of the Great Depression? What is the current homicide rate of rural rust-belt America, with lower per capita incomes than poor urban areas? Poverty isn't the cause. Sorry you've been wasting your time.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

When 15% of world gun deaths are coming from the USA which has just 4.25% of the world population, perhaps it's time to focus on national level issues instead of using excuses.

busymom0 5y ago
> gun deaths That's a meaningless stat. The point of my Chicago stat is that vast majority of the shootings are coming from gang members. A gang member shooting another gang member isn't a relevant stat. And shootings in self defence is one of the purposes of owning a gun (though not what the 2A is only for). That's like saying my daughter would be safer to live in my home country India where she may not get shot but she may get raped late at night. Or like saying Afghanistan is safer somehow? Estimated 800,000 to 2.45 million defensive uses of firearms per year in 1993 national survey. https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0798.htm https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS94/rpt/olr/htm/94-R-0798.htm Another 2008 study by National Academy of Sciences showed 500,000 to more than 3 million "Defensive Use of Guns". Simply having the gun on your or brandishing it prevented crimes from happening. This was in 2008. That numbers is even higher now. Source: https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3 https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3 Page 15 of the study talks about the defensive use part. You can download the PDF by using the "guest" option and entering any random email (doesn't have to be real). Another related source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/#7880e35d299a https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-... > "Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008." > "In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to six states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Estimates based on CDC’s surveys confirm estimates for the same sets of states based on data from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995). Extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole CDC’s survey data imply that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results." > "One CDC official in the 1990s openly told the Washington Post that his goal was to create a public perception of gun ownership as something “dirty, deadly — and banned.” Given that history, I can’t dismiss Kleck’s critique." How do you propose these people - wives/daughters/elderly/handicapped/living close to cartels/over 800K-3 million defensive uses should defend themselves? Also, U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households, something which is well known for kids to grow up into criminals: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-children-more-likely-than-children-in-other-countries-to-live-with-just-one-parent/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/12/u-s-childre...

sjg007 5y ago

Chicago ain’t in Virginia.

TheCoelacanth 5y ago

Gun control has never been a big thing in VA. Even Democrats are not pushing very hard for it.