3 ms·

> And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience". They have studied this though.

by davidw 5y ago

> And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience". They have studied this though. Actual scientists, not people on Youtube or Facebook, and they have found that masks diminish the transmission of COVID-19. This is kind of what you'd expect with something airborne.

ajmurmann 5y ago
BuT If iT DoEsnT WoRK 100% oF tHe TimE It DOesNt wOrK!!
rayiner 5y ago
By how much, and is it worth it? The first is a scientific question. The second is a political question. Americans fail because neither side recognizes the difference. Other developed countries are not masking kids as young as we are doing. Countries like France are rescinding mask mandates now. For us, there is no end in sight, even in highly vaccinated areas.
- davidw 5y ago
  We went to Italy over the summer, and mask usage was ubiquitous. Nothing fancy, just the basic surgical ones. They are required in schools there because children come into contact with adults. "Is it worth it" is an ongoing question; at some point, it's probably not, but we're not there just yet. Our vaccination rates are still pretty low. And remember: the bellowing about masks started before we even had vaccines.
  - b9a2cab5 5y ago
    "we're not there just yet" is a political decision, not a scientific one.
    - davidw 5y ago
      Yes, but it can be based on more objective statistics though, like the local hospital being overrun with COVID patients, as ours was over the summer.
      - PKop 5y ago
        It is a political decision to weigh all the various and multiple "facts" and make a value judgement involving tradeoffs of which interests are prioritized and which are subordinated. It is a political and value judgement to err on the side of minuscule improvement, if any at all, from wearing masks and mandating vaccines for cohorts that statistically don't need to worry about covid, while degrading the social development of children, and hurting the wider economic interests of people affected by endless restrictions. These are all political questions. There are no all encompassing "facts" that delineate who is harmed and who is helped and in what proportions. That is the realm of politics.
  - rkk3 5y ago
    > Our vaccination rates are still pretty low Not really, 221 Million have had it-least 1 shot in the US and another 73 Million are under 18 and are at almost no risk (558 total deaths).
clarge1120 5y ago
The risk from infection is small enough to be considered zero. There is no reason to mask the children.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  Explain that to the kids that died or the older relatives that got sick from the infected kids.
  - busymom0 5y ago
    > Explain that to the kids that died At least 9 out of 10 children in the ICUs in North Carolina were obese. https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-children-in-covid-icus-are-overweight-but-public-health-officials-rarely-talk-about-obesity https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-c... The iron-fisted one-size-fits-all approach has never been used in medicine and health except COVID.
    - tehjoker 5y ago
      Nice of you to discard anyone with a health problem.
      - chiefalchemist 5y ago
        Perhaps. But if such conditions increase risk why is the government reluctant to promote that fact? What is gained in the lack of honesty and transparency? Along the same lines, ingoring this differentiator has allowed the gov the take a heavy handed on size fits all approach. If the risk is targeted, why is the loss of rights applied to everyone? Finally, this approach is now being used to jab the kids. That isn't justice. In fact - whether anyone agrees or disagree s - it smells like textbook authoritarianism. In that context, we are all discarded.
        tehjoker 5y ago
        Huge numbers of people have at least one co-morbidity. The number of perfectly healthy people is probably a minority of the country. The number of co-morbidity rises with declining income and dangerousness of work. So all the bushiness owners and fancy lad writers, managers, programmers, and other white collars are better positioned to withstand the pandemic with virtually every advantage in both isolation and physical health. All those guys that eat shit because they don't have money or time and burn themselves out physically working hard get to die. In a slightly different category of person, it's morbidly fascinating watching unvaccinated people on twitter note their buddy just died and say they had comorbidities with a profile pic that shows them to be obese. In this case, we have to judge whether the petty authoritarianism of those that spread illness and death vs the government pushing everyone to help stop that with, at this point, a fairly convincingly safe vaccine.
busymom0 5y ago
I wasn't referring to masks in that statement. I was referring to vaccine mandates.
irthomasthomas 5y ago
"Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%" (For medical professionals) https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long Why does everyone promote cloth masks, instead of proper N95 masks?
- davidw 5y ago
  In Italy (we visited relatives this summer), everyone was wearing surgical masks, with some N95 here and there. No one had cloth masks. Surgical masks are cheap and easy to make and a country as wealthy as the US could ensure that everyone has an ample supply. We could probably even do that with N95's at this point.
  - irthomasthomas 5y ago
    Surgical masks are cloth masks.

by davidw 5y ago

ajmurmann 5y ago

BuT If iT DoEsnT WoRK 100% oF tHe TimE It DOesNt wOrK!!

rayiner 5y ago

By how much, and is it worth it? The first is a scientific question. The second is a political question. Americans fail because neither side recognizes the difference. Other developed countries are not masking kids as young as we are doing. Countries like France are rescinding mask mandates now. For us, there is no end in sight, even in highly vaccinated areas.

davidw 5y ago
We went to Italy over the summer, and mask usage was ubiquitous. Nothing fancy, just the basic surgical ones. They are required in schools there because children come into contact with adults. "Is it worth it" is an ongoing question; at some point, it's probably not, but we're not there just yet. Our vaccination rates are still pretty low. And remember: the bellowing about masks started before we even had vaccines.
- b9a2cab5 5y ago
  "we're not there just yet" is a political decision, not a scientific one.
  - davidw 5y ago
    Yes, but it can be based on more objective statistics though, like the local hospital being overrun with COVID patients, as ours was over the summer.
    - PKop 5y ago
      It is a political decision to weigh all the various and multiple "facts" and make a value judgement involving tradeoffs of which interests are prioritized and which are subordinated. It is a political and value judgement to err on the side of minuscule improvement, if any at all, from wearing masks and mandating vaccines for cohorts that statistically don't need to worry about covid, while degrading the social development of children, and hurting the wider economic interests of people affected by endless restrictions. These are all political questions. There are no all encompassing "facts" that delineate who is harmed and who is helped and in what proportions. That is the realm of politics.
- rkk3 5y ago
  > Our vaccination rates are still pretty low Not really, 221 Million have had it-least 1 shot in the US and another 73 Million are under 18 and are at almost no risk (558 total deaths).

clarge1120 5y ago

The risk from infection is small enough to be considered zero. There is no reason to mask the children.

tehjoker 5y ago
Explain that to the kids that died or the older relatives that got sick from the infected kids.
- busymom0 5y ago
  > Explain that to the kids that died At least 9 out of 10 children in the ICUs in North Carolina were obese. https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-children-in-covid-icus-are-overweight-but-public-health-officials-rarely-talk-about-obesity https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-c... The iron-fisted one-size-fits-all approach has never been used in medicine and health except COVID.
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    Nice of you to discard anyone with a health problem.
    - chiefalchemist 5y ago
      Perhaps. But if such conditions increase risk why is the government reluctant to promote that fact? What is gained in the lack of honesty and transparency? Along the same lines, ingoring this differentiator has allowed the gov the take a heavy handed on size fits all approach. If the risk is targeted, why is the loss of rights applied to everyone? Finally, this approach is now being used to jab the kids. That isn't justice. In fact - whether anyone agrees or disagree s - it smells like textbook authoritarianism. In that context, we are all discarded.
      - tehjoker 5y ago
        Huge numbers of people have at least one co-morbidity. The number of perfectly healthy people is probably a minority of the country. The number of co-morbidity rises with declining income and dangerousness of work. So all the bushiness owners and fancy lad writers, managers, programmers, and other white collars are better positioned to withstand the pandemic with virtually every advantage in both isolation and physical health. All those guys that eat shit because they don't have money or time and burn themselves out physically working hard get to die. In a slightly different category of person, it's morbidly fascinating watching unvaccinated people on twitter note their buddy just died and say they had comorbidities with a profile pic that shows them to be obese. In this case, we have to judge whether the petty authoritarianism of those that spread illness and death vs the government pushing everyone to help stop that with, at this point, a fairly convincingly safe vaccine.

busymom0 5y ago

I wasn't referring to masks in that statement. I was referring to vaccine mandates.

irthomasthomas 5y ago

"Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%" (For medical professionals) https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long Why does everyone promote cloth masks, instead of proper N95 masks?

davidw 5y ago
In Italy (we visited relatives this summer), everyone was wearing surgical masks, with some N95 here and there. No one had cloth masks. Surgical masks are cheap and easy to make and a country as wealthy as the US could ensure that everyone has an ample supply. We could probably even do that with N95's at this point.
- irthomasthomas 5y ago
  Surgical masks are cloth masks.