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Kids have the most psychological development from looking at people's faces, emotions and smiles. Saying that's a "minor inconvenience" is silly. Especially sin

Kids have the most psychological development from looking at people's faces, emotions and smiles. Saying that's a "minor inconvenience" is silly. Especially since there's negligible risks for them. And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience". EDIT: In my last sentence, I wasn't referring to masks. I was referring to vaccine mandates which the truck driver also ran on.

PKop 5y ago
Blocking the faces of children in the prime of their life, where they need to develop social skills through interaction and facial expression, is madness. The covid risk for children is a rounding error. This is not prudent risk management; mind-boggling for someone from the tech industry who should be able to do a cursory look at statistics and dismiss this practice out of hand.
- wrycoder 5y ago
  I see maskless parents shepherding their masked small children around. The kids are obviously self conscious about the masks, and at the same time, they appear to be proud to wear them.
  - busymom0 5y ago
    > they appear to be proud to wear them Being proud to be "obedient" is not always a good thing. Also this cannot be generalized. Plus it doesn't make something being mandatory right, especially when looking at people's smiles is crucial for kids development.
    - wrycoder 5y ago
      I don't mean to suggest that it's right, or even mandatory. What I'm observing is that peculiar mix of self consciousness, smugness, and pride you sometimes see in young children, when they believe they are acting morally. I'm not using quite the right words here - the emotions I'm listing are more mature. But the same emotions exist in children, just not fully matured. Since the parents were maskless, I think the kids wanted to wear theirs because they've been taught at school that it's the right thing to do. The ones I observed appeared to be around eight years old.
  - vadfa 5y ago
    Kids are proud to wear something that makes it harder for them to breathe and recognise the emotions of others? Give me a break...
- generalk 5y ago
  > Blocking the faces of children in the prime of their > life, where they need to develop social skills through > interaction and facial expression, is madness. [Citation needed.] I am unable to find a single reliable source that says mask wearing has any sociological or psychological effect on children or anyone else. Anecdotally, I haven't seen anything like that. Just typical kids. > The covid risk for children is a rounding error. Again, who says that's true? Can't find it. The Ohio Department of Health maintains a dashboard[1] for this, which indicates that it's significant enough to track, and the numbers there sure aren't "rounding error" numbers. Assuming what you meant is "children are less likely to develop severe symptoms," and also that that's true: they can still spread the virus to the adults they live with in their homes, or the many adults that share the school building they're in. (Did you think we just shove kids in an adult-less environment, or that teachers are somehow immune?) [1]: https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/schools-and-children/children https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboa...
  - busymom0 5y ago
    > I am unable to find a single reliable source that says mask wearing has any sociological or psychological effect on children or anyone else. You are looking for the wrong thing. Look for what the benefits of things like smiling and seeing smiling faces has on people's emotional health. > A happy face signals positive emotions, as well as attachment availability, care, support, and credibility [7,8,9]. Recently, Tamir and Hughes [10] argued that positive social signals such as smiling faces not only serve ultimate goals (e.g., forming strong bonds) but they are also rewarding in and off themselves. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356968/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356968/ https://www.healthline.com/health/baby/when-will-my-baby-smile https://www.healthline.com/health/baby/when-will-my-baby-smi... Hiding the main part of your face - the smile is not healthy for people, and especially not for kids whose entire social skills development heavily relies on these things.
  - PKop 5y ago
    You're only saying that you don't care about the detrimental effects of masking children or disrupting normal education processes, because adults will have some minor unspecified improvement on their rate of catching covid. Ok. I disagree that it's worth harming kids development to attempt to avoid spreading a coronavirus that is becoming endemic, will always be around, and whose spread can't be stopped. Not worth it. Ohio total covid deaths: 24,763 Ohio total 18 and under covid deaths: 12 Ohio total 18 and under population (2019): 2,578,019 If this isn't a rounding error, what is?
davidw 5y ago
> And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience". They have studied this though. Actual scientists, not people on Youtube or Facebook, and they have found that masks diminish the transmission of COVID-19. This is kind of what you'd expect with something airborne.
- ajmurmann 5y ago
  BuT If iT DoEsnT WoRK 100% oF tHe TimE It DOesNt wOrK!!
- rayiner 5y ago
  By how much, and is it worth it? The first is a scientific question. The second is a political question. Americans fail because neither side recognizes the difference. Other developed countries are not masking kids as young as we are doing. Countries like France are rescinding mask mandates now. For us, there is no end in sight, even in highly vaccinated areas.
  - davidw 5y ago
    We went to Italy over the summer, and mask usage was ubiquitous. Nothing fancy, just the basic surgical ones. They are required in schools there because children come into contact with adults. "Is it worth it" is an ongoing question; at some point, it's probably not, but we're not there just yet. Our vaccination rates are still pretty low. And remember: the bellowing about masks started before we even had vaccines.
    - b9a2cab5 5y ago
      "we're not there just yet" is a political decision, not a scientific one.
      - davidw 5y ago
        Yes, but it can be based on more objective statistics though, like the local hospital being overrun with COVID patients, as ours was over the summer.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
skinnymuch 5y ago
Darn so blind or other kids with bad vision don’t get most psychological development? Are we doing anything about this? It has to be a major crisis for all those people to grow up with stunted psychological development.

PKop 5y ago

Blocking the faces of children in the prime of their life, where they need to develop social skills through interaction and facial expression, is madness. The covid risk for children is a rounding error. This is not prudent risk management; mind-boggling for someone from the tech industry who should be able to do a cursory look at statistics and dismiss this practice out of hand.

wrycoder 5y ago
I see maskless parents shepherding their masked small children around. The kids are obviously self conscious about the masks, and at the same time, they appear to be proud to wear them.
- busymom0 5y ago
  > they appear to be proud to wear them Being proud to be "obedient" is not always a good thing. Also this cannot be generalized. Plus it doesn't make something being mandatory right, especially when looking at people's smiles is crucial for kids development.
  - wrycoder 5y ago
    I don't mean to suggest that it's right, or even mandatory. What I'm observing is that peculiar mix of self consciousness, smugness, and pride you sometimes see in young children, when they believe they are acting morally. I'm not using quite the right words here - the emotions I'm listing are more mature. But the same emotions exist in children, just not fully matured. Since the parents were maskless, I think the kids wanted to wear theirs because they've been taught at school that it's the right thing to do. The ones I observed appeared to be around eight years old.
- vadfa 5y ago
  Kids are proud to wear something that makes it harder for them to breathe and recognise the emotions of others? Give me a break...
generalk 5y ago
> Blocking the faces of children in the prime of their > life, where they need to develop social skills through > interaction and facial expression, is madness. [Citation needed.] I am unable to find a single reliable source that says mask wearing has any sociological or psychological effect on children or anyone else. Anecdotally, I haven't seen anything like that. Just typical kids. > The covid risk for children is a rounding error. Again, who says that's true? Can't find it. The Ohio Department of Health maintains a dashboard[1] for this, which indicates that it's significant enough to track, and the numbers there sure aren't "rounding error" numbers. Assuming what you meant is "children are less likely to develop severe symptoms," and also that that's true: they can still spread the virus to the adults they live with in their homes, or the many adults that share the school building they're in. (Did you think we just shove kids in an adult-less environment, or that teachers are somehow immune?) [1]: https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboards/schools-and-children/children https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboa...
- busymom0 5y ago
  > I am unable to find a single reliable source that says mask wearing has any sociological or psychological effect on children or anyone else. You are looking for the wrong thing. Look for what the benefits of things like smiling and seeing smiling faces has on people's emotional health. > A happy face signals positive emotions, as well as attachment availability, care, support, and credibility [7,8,9]. Recently, Tamir and Hughes [10] argued that positive social signals such as smiling faces not only serve ultimate goals (e.g., forming strong bonds) but they are also rewarding in and off themselves. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356968/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356968/ https://www.healthline.com/health/baby/when-will-my-baby-smile https://www.healthline.com/health/baby/when-will-my-baby-smi... Hiding the main part of your face - the smile is not healthy for people, and especially not for kids whose entire social skills development heavily relies on these things.
- PKop 5y ago
  You're only saying that you don't care about the detrimental effects of masking children or disrupting normal education processes, because adults will have some minor unspecified improvement on their rate of catching covid. Ok. I disagree that it's worth harming kids development to attempt to avoid spreading a coronavirus that is becoming endemic, will always be around, and whose spread can't be stopped. Not worth it. Ohio total covid deaths: 24,763 Ohio total 18 and under covid deaths: 12 Ohio total 18 and under population (2019): 2,578,019 If this isn't a rounding error, what is?

davidw 5y ago

> And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience". They have studied this though. Actual scientists, not people on Youtube or Facebook, and they have found that masks diminish the transmission of COVID-19. This is kind of what you'd expect with something airborne.

ajmurmann 5y ago
BuT If iT DoEsnT WoRK 100% oF tHe TimE It DOesNt wOrK!!
rayiner 5y ago
By how much, and is it worth it? The first is a scientific question. The second is a political question. Americans fail because neither side recognizes the difference. Other developed countries are not masking kids as young as we are doing. Countries like France are rescinding mask mandates now. For us, there is no end in sight, even in highly vaccinated areas.
- davidw 5y ago
  We went to Italy over the summer, and mask usage was ubiquitous. Nothing fancy, just the basic surgical ones. They are required in schools there because children come into contact with adults. "Is it worth it" is an ongoing question; at some point, it's probably not, but we're not there just yet. Our vaccination rates are still pretty low. And remember: the bellowing about masks started before we even had vaccines.
  - b9a2cab5 5y ago
    "we're not there just yet" is a political decision, not a scientific one.
    - davidw 5y ago
      Yes, but it can be based on more objective statistics though, like the local hospital being overrun with COVID patients, as ours was over the summer.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

skinnymuch 5y ago

Darn so blind or other kids with bad vision don’t get most psychological development? Are we doing anything about this? It has to be a major crisis for all those people to grow up with stunted psychological development.