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WA? That's how it was in Vancouver when I lived there. Best system I've experience so far. Also felt the government was very fair and in line with the commun

WA? That's how it was in Vancouver when I lived there. Best system I've experience so far. Also felt the government was very fair and in line with the community.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Yes. OR is the same.
mynameisash 5y ago
I'm in WA now, came from MN. It infuriates me thinking about voting in-person: my wife and I used to go to our city hall, wait in line maybe a half hour to 45 minutes. We'd snake our way through the line, get our IDs checked, fill out these forms just so, and if you get a technicality wrong, you'd have to work with someone to fix it. Yadda yadda, finally you'd have time in a booth to cast your vote. But now in WA, my wife and I typically make our morning coffee, sit out on the patio, read through the voter guide to understand what the arguments for and against a particular ballot initiative are and the statements given by individuals. We vote together, sign our ballot, seal it up, then we drive three blocks to a local drop site (only because I prefer doing that versus putting it in my mailbox). It's super easy to participate in the system here, and in my jaded perspective, that's exactly why certain people and organizations hate it so much.
- acheron 5y ago
  The secret ballot is normally considered a cornerstone of democracy. Mail in voting completely destroys that. In my jaded perspective, that’s exactly why certain people and organizations love it so much.
  - koolba 5y ago
    Indeed. If you think the results from yesterday were a shellacking, imagine the carnage if there was no early or mail-in voting. In VA in particular there were ballots cast as early as late September. Given the turn of the contest in the final weeks, nobody could say with a straight face they would have all lined up to vote for McAuliffe in person. There's a reason certain groups want to bank those votes in advance.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      No one is forced to vote early with mail in ballots.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I think you can have a secret ballot with mail in too if you drop it off in person.
  - jamroom 5y ago
    Mail in voting is still secret ballot - you have an internal "secrecy sleeve" that is in turn mailed in an outer envelope. The outer envelope signature is compared to the signature on file, and then the internal envelope is removed but is not opened in the same location. https://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/wa_vbm.pdf https://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/wa_vbm.pdf https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/politics/barr-secret-vote-fact-check/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/politics/barr-secret-vote-fac...
    - koolba 5y ago
      That doesn't stop a determined group of canvassers from going door to door and pressuring people to fill out their ballots on the spot while they wait on their doorstep. It's also a perfect time to offer a bribe or incentive for a speedy completion. There's no way that any form of remote ballot is going to be as secure as doing it in person. It's just not possible because you will never know the provenance. Like most things that involve the legal system, it's not the law abiding that we're worried about.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        While the concerns are true, I am not sure if they are applicable to a society with higher levels of trust like I assume much of the US is in. At least it is not a problem I know about where I live.
      - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
        I actually wonder how viable it would be to devise a targeted ballot spoiling attack. Picture this: Have a canvasser or harvester pick up mail in ballots. They take it to a safe house and open the envelopes. If it’s a vote for the candidate they don’t like, put marks on it so it doesn’t get counted. Place it in a new return envelope. You’ve just cancelled that person’s vote. If someone checked that their vote was counted they wouldn’t be able to see that it was spoilt. You could potentially just throw away the ballot too, I doubt most people check that they were actually received. But it does seem slightly more likely to raise eyebrows. I’m sure you could chalk it up to just getting lost at the post office.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    Indeed. It's not unheard of that a local election in Britain is invalidated because of voting irregularities - someone collected ballot papers and made sure the vote goes to their man. I hear that that happens in ethnic enclaves in Miami as well. The vote doesn't have to be convenient, but it absolutely has to be safe. Voter intimidation is impossible with in-person voting.
BikiniPrince 5y ago
The book is terrible. I toss it out and read the proposal or at the worst look it up on a few sites that track issues. There is not enough information for complex issues and the wording in my experience is very biased. It takes me more time to vote, but at least I can make an informed decision.

WA? That's how it was in Vancouver when I lived there. Best system I've experience so far. Also felt the government was very fair and in line with the community.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Yes. OR is the same.

mynameisash 5y ago

I'm in WA now, came from MN. It infuriates me thinking about voting in-person: my wife and I used to go to our city hall, wait in line maybe a half hour to 45 minutes. We'd snake our way through the line, get our IDs checked, fill out these forms just so, and if you get a technicality wrong, you'd have to work with someone to fix it. Yadda yadda, finally you'd have time in a booth to cast your vote. But now in WA, my wife and I typically make our morning coffee, sit out on the patio, read through the voter guide to understand what the arguments for and against a particular ballot initiative are and the statements given by individuals. We vote together, sign our ballot, seal it up, then we drive three blocks to a local drop site (only because I prefer doing that versus putting it in my mailbox). It's super easy to participate in the system here, and in my jaded perspective, that's exactly why certain people and organizations hate it so much.

acheron 5y ago
The secret ballot is normally considered a cornerstone of democracy. Mail in voting completely destroys that. In my jaded perspective, that’s exactly why certain people and organizations love it so much.
- koolba 5y ago
  Indeed. If you think the results from yesterday were a shellacking, imagine the carnage if there was no early or mail-in voting. In VA in particular there were ballots cast as early as late September. Given the turn of the contest in the final weeks, nobody could say with a straight face they would have all lined up to vote for McAuliffe in person. There's a reason certain groups want to bank those votes in advance.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    No one is forced to vote early with mail in ballots.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  I think you can have a secret ballot with mail in too if you drop it off in person.
- jamroom 5y ago
  Mail in voting is still secret ballot - you have an internal "secrecy sleeve" that is in turn mailed in an outer envelope. The outer envelope signature is compared to the signature on file, and then the internal envelope is removed but is not opened in the same location. https://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/wa_vbm.pdf https://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elections/wa_vbm.pdf https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/politics/barr-secret-vote-fact-check/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/politics/barr-secret-vote-fac...
  - koolba 5y ago
    That doesn't stop a determined group of canvassers from going door to door and pressuring people to fill out their ballots on the spot while they wait on their doorstep. It's also a perfect time to offer a bribe or incentive for a speedy completion. There's no way that any form of remote ballot is going to be as secure as doing it in person. It's just not possible because you will never know the provenance. Like most things that involve the legal system, it's not the law abiding that we're worried about.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      While the concerns are true, I am not sure if they are applicable to a society with higher levels of trust like I assume much of the US is in. At least it is not a problem I know about where I live.
    - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
      I actually wonder how viable it would be to devise a targeted ballot spoiling attack. Picture this: Have a canvasser or harvester pick up mail in ballots. They take it to a safe house and open the envelopes. If it’s a vote for the candidate they don’t like, put marks on it so it doesn’t get counted. Place it in a new return envelope. You’ve just cancelled that person’s vote. If someone checked that their vote was counted they wouldn’t be able to see that it was spoilt. You could potentially just throw away the ballot too, I doubt most people check that they were actually received. But it does seem slightly more likely to raise eyebrows. I’m sure you could chalk it up to just getting lost at the post office.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  Indeed. It's not unheard of that a local election in Britain is invalidated because of voting irregularities - someone collected ballot papers and made sure the vote goes to their man. I hear that that happens in ethnic enclaves in Miami as well. The vote doesn't have to be convenient, but it absolutely has to be safe. Voter intimidation is impossible with in-person voting.

BikiniPrince 5y ago

The book is terrible. I toss it out and read the proposal or at the worst look it up on a few sites that track issues. There is not enough information for complex issues and the wording in my experience is very biased. It takes me more time to vote, but at least I can make an informed decision.