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Quoting Durr in Politico: [0] Durr said Democratic Gov. Phil Murphy’s coronavirus executive orders, vaccine and school mask, unemployment benefits snafus and a

• davidw 5y ago
  I'm beginning to come around to this point of view: https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/peacefield/617c7b245793d600215d2b35/peacefield-post/ https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/peacefield/617c7b245793d... - we are not a serious nation. There's a global pandemic caused by an airborne pathogen, and people throw an absolute hissy fit over a minor inconvenience like masks. My kids wear them all day long in school, and while they don't love them, they are not constantly whining about them like some adults. My grandparents, on the other hand, dealt with wartime rationing for years (and they were lucky, because they lived in a place where they could hunt) because our country was in a global battle with Nazis. And all that after the depression.
  • ludicast 5y ago
    My masked son had a low pulse ox in his checkup. About 80, the same number that with covid should necessitate a hospital visit. Supposedly a lot of kids have needed to demask to get a good pulse ox. As a parent this terrifies me.
  • busymom0 5y ago
    Kids have the most psychological development from looking at people's faces, emotions and smiles. Saying that's a "minor inconvenience" is silly. Especially since there's negligible risks for them. And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience". EDIT: In my last sentence, I wasn't referring to masks. I was referring to vaccine mandates which the truck driver also ran on.
    • PKop 5y ago
      Blocking the faces of children in the prime of their life, where they need to develop social skills through interaction and facial expression, is madness. The covid risk for children is a rounding error. This is not prudent risk management; mind-boggling for someone from the tech industry who should be able to do a cursory look at statistics and dismiss this practice out of hand.
      • wrycoder 5y ago
        I see maskless parents shepherding their masked small children around. The kids are obviously self conscious about the masks, and at the same time, they appear to be proud to wear them.
        • busymom0 5y ago
          > they appear to be proud to wear them Being proud to be "obedient" is not always a good thing. Also this cannot be generalized. Plus it doesn't make something being mandatory right, especially when looking at people's smiles is crucial for kids development.
          • wrycoder 5y ago
            I don't mean to suggest that it's right, or even mandatory. What I'm observing is that peculiar mix of self consciousness, smugness, and pride you sometimes see in young children, when they believe they are acting morally. I'm not using quite the right words here - the emotions I'm listing are more mature. But the same emotions exist in children, just not fully matured. Since the parents were maskless, I think the kids wanted to wear theirs because they've been taught at school that it's the right thing to do. The ones I observed appeared to be around eight years old.
  • PKop 5y ago
    [flagged]
    • sjg007 5y ago
      Stop spreading disinformation.
    • VRay 5y ago
      https://covid19.healthdata.org/japan?view=daily-deaths&tab=trend https://covid19.healthdata.org/japan?view=daily-deaths&tab=t... Basically no lockdown other than shutting down bars at 8 PM, plenty of exposure between proximity to China and super-crowded trains The difference between Japan and the USA is their ubiquitous mask use We went on a 20 year jihad over a single 9/11's worth of preventable deaths in the USA, and yet we can't be bothered to take any action when we're racking up a 9/11 every couple of days? https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view=daily-deaths&tab=trend https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america?view...
      • irthomasthomas 5y ago
        Are you serious? Japan has THE HIGHEST life expectancy in the world! And America is ranked 34. Maybe your source isn't very honest, if they failed to point this out? https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/japan-life-expectancy https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/japan-life-expectancy
        • fomine3 5y ago
          Higher elderly population means people tend to die due to covid.
      • impostergc 5y ago
        Compare obesity between the two nations and I think you'll find the culprit.
    • judahmeek 5y ago
      You mentioned statistics in another comment of yours, just slightly above this one. Can you show me statistics regarding this "real and obvious risk of psychological and social harm" of children wearing masks?
  • Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
    Probably it doesn't help that political leaders all over the world wear masks only for photo shoots. Internet is full of videos how they take masks off the second after shoot is over. People rightfully consider this to be a hypocrisy.
    • jbigelow76 5y ago
      People rightfully consider this to be a hypocrisy. Hypocrisy can effectively dampen voter turnout of your supporters if they are idealistic enough. But it's an absolute non-factor if you can sufficiently demonize your opponent(s) and their positions, just look at Trump and how he has wrapped Evangelical America around his little finger.
  • pvarangot 5y ago
    I would be ok with the orders if they really thought they were going to help. I was ok with the initial lockdowns, politicians where scared, and acted fast the best way they could. Most orders after that where just polling their voters to see what they could do and look like "they are doing something" but angering the least people possible. That's bullshit, and even the governor of San Francisco and the governor of California where found bending their policy or breaking the rules multiple times.
  • themgt 5y ago
    Fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a mask in most settings. The choice is yours: get vaccinated or wear a mask until you do. - The White House, May 14, 2021 https://www.facebook.com/WhiteHouse/videos/its-vaxxed-or-masked/1593871610823997/ https://www.facebook.com/WhiteHouse/videos/its-vaxxed-or-mas...
    • davidw 5y ago
      'When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?' It looked like things were improving, and the more contagious Delta variant (or, as the airline likes to write, B.1.617.2) turned up. Where I live in Oregon, our hospital was overflowing with people towards the end of summer, to the point where people have died because they couldn't get 'elective' surgery. In that kind of situation, you use a 'defense in depth' strategy, which includes both vaccines and masks. It's really not that big of a problem to wear one.
      • busymom0 5y ago
        > 'When the facts change, I change my mind - what do you do, sir?' That's not the problem. The problem is that those who were saying the "now correct" thing prior to the "experts" changing their minds were first called misinformation. The "experts" make definitive statements without any nuance and when they get proven wrong, they don't apologize. For example the Press Secretary said "this is the pandemic of the unvaccinated" a week ago and then couple days later, she tested positive. Here's another example: > “We don't talk enough to you about this, I don't think. One last thing that's really important is, we're not in the position where we think that any virus, including the Delta virus, which is much more transmissible and more deadly in terms of unvaccinated people, the -- the various shots that people are getting now cover that. You're OK. You're not going to -- you're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” - Biden said on Jul 22. I posted in July on HN that Israel's data shows this statement is literally not true. But I was called misinformation.
  • native_samples 5y ago
    Masks don't work at all and never have, so your school is just making your kids unhappy for no reason. https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/every-comparison-shows-masks-are https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/every-comparison-shows-masks-a... They don't "whine" because they know it's pointless and the school/you will punish them if they do. Adults have more options.
    • davidw 5y ago
      Actual scientists doing real research have shown that masks do indeed work, even if they do not, of course, prevent transmission 100% of the time. I mean... the thing is airborne, why wouldn't they help?
      • native_samples 5y ago
        Your intuitions about airborne transmission are based on the idea of viruses being carried in relatively huge droplets of water, which due to their size and weight would rapidly fall to the ground. Hence constantly wiping surfaces clean, sneezing into the nook of your arm, mask mandates and lockdowns reducing transmission, etc. This theory is inconsistent with the evidence: mask mandates have no effect on case numbers and nor did lockdowns. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant - the data is final. Therefore the droplet theory is wrong, and by extension theories based on it are also wrong. There is an alternative theory of how SARS-CoV-2 spreads through the air: that the viruses can exist in fine aerosols that can be suspended in the air for relatively long periods. This theory is consistent with the evidence actually available: 1. It's consistent with islands that closed their borders early being able to keep the virus out, but nowhere else. 2. It's consistent with mask wearing having no effect, because masks aren't airtight. You still need to breathe in the surrounding air and the holes in masks are much too large to stop a very fine suspended aerosol. Additionally it wouldn't matter even if they are airtight and very good filters because there's evidence the virus can enter via the eyeballs too. 3. It's consistent with lockdowns having no effect. Even in "lockdown" lots of people still need to be in areas recently vacated by other people, like shops, factories, anything to do with the supply chain. 4. It's consistent with the apparent lack of infections outside. Where the wind blows, aerosols emitted by an infected person are rapidly dispersed in the air. 5. It's consistent with the failure of measures like handwashing to keep the virus out of care homes. It's also consistent with SARS-CoV-1, in which an outbreak was investigated and the conclusion was it circulated through an apartment block via air in drainpipes: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/04/18/in-hong-kong-apartment-tower-sars-virus-spread-through-plumbing/99bcd25f-de85-472a-b084-4f847e0dac9a/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/04/18/i... That isn't possible with the droplet theory, but is perfectly possible with aerosol theory. The fact that "actual scientists" doing "real research" show that masks work is actually evidence that their research is garbage and they aren't "actual scientists", at least not if we define scientists as people who successfully apply the scientific method to understand reality. If they worked then you'd be able to consistently see the impact in case numbers, but that's simply impossible. If you read any of their studies you'll soon be struck by how universally poor the quality of COVID research actually is. The scientific method as normally meant has more or less gone AWOL and what's left behind is a bunch of people who very much have an agenda desperately trying to justify why their previous advice wasn't wrong. I really couldn't care less what "actual scientists" think at this point. If they want to be taken seriously they need to provide evidence that's strongly convincing on its own merits, because their institutional credibility has long since turned to dust.
• ajmurmann 5y ago
  Yeah, the pandemic has really highlighted how many people rather adjust their world view and deny basic facts when accepts something that's uncomfortable or just plainly don't want to make even the smallest sacrifice for society.
  • clarge1120 5y ago
    Define “the smallest sacrifice”.