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This is beyond depressing (I am not a US resident..) The entire New England is going brown by closing nuclear reactors, fighting wind and now this. IIRC, out

This is beyond depressing (I am not a US resident..) The entire New England is going brown by closing nuclear reactors, fighting wind and now this. IIRC, out of $1BN, about $300M was compensation and pork for local residents

paleotrope 5y ago
I have family in Maine and have spent alot of time there recently. The voters up there are schizophrenic. Very little makes any sense. A high tax state, high cost of living that is 1/2 retirees from southern new england, 1/2 dirt poor people. They vote against anything that would improve their economic conditions. It's like Alaska and Florida combined without oil or sun.
- TrisMcC 5y ago
  This is a warped view of Maine's demographics and pretty insulting.
  - lovich 5y ago
    I live near enough to the border that most of Maine is a day trip away and that’s the impression I get from local news, and friends and family living in Maine. Only other stereotype I can recall being told on top of the GP is that it’s very insular and if you’re not a Maine native then don’t expect to ever win an election. Again all anecdotal but it’s what your neighbors think of you at least
    - catawbasam 5y ago
      A local term for one group of neighbors is "Massholes", so guess the feeling is mutual.
      - lovich 5y ago
        Yea, and I don’t know anyone from the area whose been called that and didn’t at least begrudgingly accept it. Sometimes the nicknames are accurate
      - spywaregorilla 5y ago
        Massholes use this term as well, so, not too bad.
- danielsju6 5y ago
  How would this help Maine’s economic conditions? The lease for the land was something like $4k/yr, would result in no permanent jobs, no power delivery to Maine, no lower rates, and was railroaded through by our last and very unpopular tea-party governor. CMP is beyond hated in Maine too. They need to bring something to the negotiation table IMO.
throwawaycuriou 5y ago
Ironically, much of the funding for 'Yes' (which was in opposition to the new power lines) was provided by a nuclear reactor in New Hampshire that didn't want to compete against the lower electricity rates this would bring.
- snsr 5y ago
  I guess Quebec hasn't heard, they are now allowed to advertise a position on US ballot initiatives. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/02/foreign-money-ballot-initiatives/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/02/foreign-m...
  - throwawaycuriou 5y ago
    I believe HydroQuebec put in more money than anyone for this referendum.
TrisMcC 5y ago
Mainers HATE Central Maine Power. Anything that hurts them is seen as a positive. The lease they got on the land for transmission lines was ruled illegal. We have tried (and still are trying) to create a public utility to replace CMP called Pine Tree Power. It was passed in the legislature but vetoed by our governor this year. There was also a story about the First Nations of Quebec not having their voices heard regarding the transmission lines that pass through their lands.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Mainers hate Massholes too. They get two give two groups they hate the bird with just one vote. Of course they voted the way they did.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  > We have tried (and still are trying) to create a public utility to replace CMP called Pine Tree Power. It was passed in the legislature but vetoed by our governor this year. Maybe Quebec should have just founded a competitor to CMP down there. > There was also a story about the First Nations of Quebec not having their voices heard regarding the transmission lines that pass through their lands. There's a tribe claiming they own the whole island of Montreal out there (despite treaties covering it since the 17th century). I'm sure some lobbyist found people willing to make any claims they wanted in front of the press.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    It would sadly not be legal under Federal law, as crown corporations have to be founded for the national interest. The provincial government and quebecers would absolutely love it though, Hydro Quebec is so profitable yet the electricity is so cheap.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      > It would sadly not be legal under Federal law, as crown corporations have to be founded for the national interest. It's definitely in the interest of the United States that this project succeed, as well as in the national interest of Quebec. With the arrival of carbon exchange, this would help the country get a competitive edge.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
The company that wanted to build the line (CMP) spend the last 20yr burning any political capitol it had. They've screwed people out of lots of money while delivering crap service. Now they wanna build a line to line their pockets while mostly befitting Massashusetts, a state full of people that everyone in Maine not employed in tourism hates (and the tourism industry simply tolerates). You don't get to do business like that and expect voters not to see the opportunity to screw you back. People aren't that stupid.
- AYBABTME 5y ago
  Why are people in Maine disliking Massachusetts?
  - spywaregorilla 5y ago
    Maine gets swamped by Massachusetts tourists. I was on a rafting trip there. The guides made jokes about it to shit on MA (in good fun), and sure enough, 80% of the bus was from MA. I'm sure this is almost always the case. But I'm not sure people from MA are easy enough to identify vs. other northeastern states?
  - danielsju6 5y ago
    It’s an old tradition, probably dating back to when Maine was part of Massachusetts and they didn’t defend us from the invading British in the war of 1812, esp. during the sacking of Bangor and Hampden. This fueled Maine becoming its own state after the war.
  - paleotrope 5y ago
    I think it has something to do with the number of people from Mass moving to Maine and retiring. Contributing very little to the economy, increasing the cost of real estate and bringing their political preferences with them.

paleotrope 5y ago

I have family in Maine and have spent alot of time there recently. The voters up there are schizophrenic. Very little makes any sense. A high tax state, high cost of living that is 1/2 retirees from southern new england, 1/2 dirt poor people. They vote against anything that would improve their economic conditions. It's like Alaska and Florida combined without oil or sun.

TrisMcC 5y ago
This is a warped view of Maine's demographics and pretty insulting.
- lovich 5y ago
  I live near enough to the border that most of Maine is a day trip away and that’s the impression I get from local news, and friends and family living in Maine. Only other stereotype I can recall being told on top of the GP is that it’s very insular and if you’re not a Maine native then don’t expect to ever win an election. Again all anecdotal but it’s what your neighbors think of you at least
  - catawbasam 5y ago
    A local term for one group of neighbors is "Massholes", so guess the feeling is mutual.
    - lovich 5y ago
      Yea, and I don’t know anyone from the area whose been called that and didn’t at least begrudgingly accept it. Sometimes the nicknames are accurate
    - spywaregorilla 5y ago
      Massholes use this term as well, so, not too bad.
danielsju6 5y ago
How would this help Maine’s economic conditions? The lease for the land was something like $4k/yr, would result in no permanent jobs, no power delivery to Maine, no lower rates, and was railroaded through by our last and very unpopular tea-party governor. CMP is beyond hated in Maine too. They need to bring something to the negotiation table IMO.

throwawaycuriou 5y ago

Ironically, much of the funding for 'Yes' (which was in opposition to the new power lines) was provided by a nuclear reactor in New Hampshire that didn't want to compete against the lower electricity rates this would bring.

snsr 5y ago
I guess Quebec hasn't heard, they are now allowed to advertise a position on US ballot initiatives. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/02/foreign-money-ballot-initiatives/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/02/foreign-m...
- throwawaycuriou 5y ago
  I believe HydroQuebec put in more money than anyone for this referendum.

TrisMcC 5y ago

Mainers HATE Central Maine Power. Anything that hurts them is seen as a positive. The lease they got on the land for transmission lines was ruled illegal. We have tried (and still are trying) to create a public utility to replace CMP called Pine Tree Power. It was passed in the legislature but vetoed by our governor this year. There was also a story about the First Nations of Quebec not having their voices heard regarding the transmission lines that pass through their lands.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Mainers hate Massholes too. They get two give two groups they hate the bird with just one vote. Of course they voted the way they did.
908B64B197 5y ago
> We have tried (and still are trying) to create a public utility to replace CMP called Pine Tree Power. It was passed in the legislature but vetoed by our governor this year. Maybe Quebec should have just founded a competitor to CMP down there. > There was also a story about the First Nations of Quebec not having their voices heard regarding the transmission lines that pass through their lands. There's a tribe claiming they own the whole island of Montreal out there (despite treaties covering it since the 17th century). I'm sure some lobbyist found people willing to make any claims they wanted in front of the press.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  It would sadly not be legal under Federal law, as crown corporations have to be founded for the national interest. The provincial government and quebecers would absolutely love it though, Hydro Quebec is so profitable yet the electricity is so cheap.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    > It would sadly not be legal under Federal law, as crown corporations have to be founded for the national interest. It's definitely in the interest of the United States that this project succeed, as well as in the national interest of Quebec. With the arrival of carbon exchange, this would help the country get a competitive edge.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago

The company that wanted to build the line (CMP) spend the last 20yr burning any political capitol it had. They've screwed people out of lots of money while delivering crap service. Now they wanna build a line to line their pockets while mostly befitting Massashusetts, a state full of people that everyone in Maine not employed in tourism hates (and the tourism industry simply tolerates). You don't get to do business like that and expect voters not to see the opportunity to screw you back. People aren't that stupid.

AYBABTME 5y ago
Why are people in Maine disliking Massachusetts?
- spywaregorilla 5y ago
  Maine gets swamped by Massachusetts tourists. I was on a rafting trip there. The guides made jokes about it to shit on MA (in good fun), and sure enough, 80% of the bus was from MA. I'm sure this is almost always the case. But I'm not sure people from MA are easy enough to identify vs. other northeastern states?
- danielsju6 5y ago
  It’s an old tradition, probably dating back to when Maine was part of Massachusetts and they didn’t defend us from the invading British in the war of 1812, esp. during the sacking of Bangor and Hampden. This fueled Maine becoming its own state after the war.
- paleotrope 5y ago
  I think it has something to do with the number of people from Mass moving to Maine and retiring. Contributing very little to the economy, increasing the cost of real estate and bringing their political preferences with them.