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There is an interesting story about Madigan in Chicago. Ran the Illinois machine. Corrupt as all hell. A college student decided to run against him and colle

There is an interesting story about Madigan in Chicago. Ran the Illinois machine. Corrupt as all hell. A college student decided to run against him and collected enough signatures to get on the ballot. Madigan typically ran unopposed. Well come to find about, of the 500 people who signed the petition to get this kid on the ballot, 1200 rescinded their support. You do the math. These people aren't loved. They just know how to work the system to keep the outsiders out. The article says in a district of 150k, the NJ Senate President never received more than 30k votes. 20% of the population was dictating policy. Its no surprise that, when given the choice, people will vote their preference.

wrycoder 5y ago
0.1% were dictating policy. The other 19.9% of the votes were just following directions.
lotsofpulp 5y ago
People where I live get a ballot and a book in the mail weeks before the election with details for all the candidates and questions, and all you have to do is drop it in the outgoing mail. Takes no more than 30min of your time, maybe 1 hour if you are a slow reader. And yet, less than 20% voter participation. It is ironic that turnout for national elections, where their vote is moot is much higher. But for school boards, county positions, and city positions that actually have an effect on day to day life and expenses, people do not care as much.
- stickyricky 5y ago
  WA? That's how it was in Vancouver when I lived there. Best system I've experience so far. Also felt the government was very fair and in line with the community.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Yes. OR is the same.
  - mynameisash 5y ago
    I'm in WA now, came from MN. It infuriates me thinking about voting in-person: my wife and I used to go to our city hall, wait in line maybe a half hour to 45 minutes. We'd snake our way through the line, get our IDs checked, fill out these forms just so, and if you get a technicality wrong, you'd have to work with someone to fix it. Yadda yadda, finally you'd have time in a booth to cast your vote. But now in WA, my wife and I typically make our morning coffee, sit out on the patio, read through the voter guide to understand what the arguments for and against a particular ballot initiative are and the statements given by individuals. We vote together, sign our ballot, seal it up, then we drive three blocks to a local drop site (only because I prefer doing that versus putting it in my mailbox). It's super easy to participate in the system here, and in my jaded perspective, that's exactly why certain people and organizations hate it so much.
    - acheron 5y ago
      The secret ballot is normally considered a cornerstone of democracy. Mail in voting completely destroys that. In my jaded perspective, that’s exactly why certain people and organizations love it so much.
      - koolba 5y ago
        Indeed. If you think the results from yesterday were a shellacking, imagine the carnage if there was no early or mail-in voting. In VA in particular there were ballots cast as early as late September. Given the turn of the contest in the final weeks, nobody could say with a straight face they would have all lined up to vote for McAuliffe in person. There's a reason certain groups want to bank those votes in advance.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        No one is forced to vote early with mail in ballots.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        I think you can have a secret ballot with mail in too if you drop it off in person.
  - BikiniPrince 5y ago
    The book is terrible. I toss it out and read the proposal or at the worst look it up on a few sites that track issues. There is not enough information for complex issues and the wording in my experience is very biased. It takes me more time to vote, but at least I can make an informed decision.
- adolph 5y ago
  > People where I live get a ballot and a book in the mail weeks before the election with details for all the candidates and questions, and all you have to do is drop it in the outgoing mail. Are the votes not secret or are the votes not verified as authentic?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Votes are secret and verified to ensure there is only 1 vote per person. https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/faq_vote_by_mail.aspx https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/faq_vote_by_mail.aspx
dlp211 5y ago
It's not that simple. There was a multi-million dollar (I believe it was $18MM) coordinated campaign against Sweeny in 2017 that failed. It wasn't about offering voters a choice, they've had choices in the past.
- stickyricky 5y ago
  You're right its not. But there's something to be said for voting for one of two insiders or an insider versus an outsider. I don't think Mr. Durr's achievement is replicable. In my opinion, significant election reform is necessary.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
syngrog66 5y ago
> Well come to find about, of the 500 people who signed the petition to get this kid on the ballot, 1200 rescinded their support. > You do the math. I did and, well... squints at those numbers
- stickyricky 5y ago
  "The Chicago-School of Mathematics".
caseysoftware 5y ago
Grew up near Chicago but long gone before this happened so I looked it up: > Krupa needed 473 valid signatures of ward residents to get on the ballot. He filed 1,729 signatures with the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners. He earlier said he filed 1,703 but missed a page of signatures. > A crew of mysterious political workers — perhaps they were Buddhist monks, or the gentle sun people known as the Eloi, or maybe Madigan precinct captains — filed 2,796 petitions of revocation of signature. That means 2,796 ward residents filed legal affidavits that they wanted their signatures taken off Krupa’s petitions. > The Madigan men filed 187 affidavits of revocation matching Krupa signatures. But Dorf, a progressive who’d done election work for the late Mayor Harold Washington and former President Barack Obama, put in a Freedom of Information Act request asking the board to give him all the revocations affidavits that were filed. > All 2,796 of them. > “And that’s where the fraud comes in, that’s where the felonies come in,” Dorf said. “Almost 2,800 affidavits were filed. But only 1,726 people signed petitions for Krupa. And of the 2,800 affidavits, the 13th Ward could only find 187 signatures that matched. > Subtract 187 from 2,796 and you get 2,609 — that’s a lot of possible felonies, either perjury or voter intimidation. Ref: https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-met-chicago-13th-ward-alderman-election-kass-20181215-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-met-chic...
- BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
  We’ve got some pretty convincing evidence of corruption and election fraud here. BUT, rest assured this is extremely rare and these same people wouldn’t dare tamper with any other kind of election. Nor would this happen anywhere else in the United States. Anyone who asserts an election was subject to fraud is attacking democracy itself. /s
  - ejstronge 5y ago
    > Anyone who asserts an election was subject to fraud is attacking democracy itself. /s I trust you are referring to problems with the 2020 election? I would appreciate learning what analogies you see between mob-like coercion and the election

wrycoder 5y ago

0.1% were dictating policy. The other 19.9% of the votes were just following directions.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

People where I live get a ballot and a book in the mail weeks before the election with details for all the candidates and questions, and all you have to do is drop it in the outgoing mail. Takes no more than 30min of your time, maybe 1 hour if you are a slow reader. And yet, less than 20% voter participation. It is ironic that turnout for national elections, where their vote is moot is much higher. But for school boards, county positions, and city positions that actually have an effect on day to day life and expenses, people do not care as much.

stickyricky 5y ago
WA? That's how it was in Vancouver when I lived there. Best system I've experience so far. Also felt the government was very fair and in line with the community.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Yes. OR is the same.
- mynameisash 5y ago
  I'm in WA now, came from MN. It infuriates me thinking about voting in-person: my wife and I used to go to our city hall, wait in line maybe a half hour to 45 minutes. We'd snake our way through the line, get our IDs checked, fill out these forms just so, and if you get a technicality wrong, you'd have to work with someone to fix it. Yadda yadda, finally you'd have time in a booth to cast your vote. But now in WA, my wife and I typically make our morning coffee, sit out on the patio, read through the voter guide to understand what the arguments for and against a particular ballot initiative are and the statements given by individuals. We vote together, sign our ballot, seal it up, then we drive three blocks to a local drop site (only because I prefer doing that versus putting it in my mailbox). It's super easy to participate in the system here, and in my jaded perspective, that's exactly why certain people and organizations hate it so much.
  - acheron 5y ago
    The secret ballot is normally considered a cornerstone of democracy. Mail in voting completely destroys that. In my jaded perspective, that’s exactly why certain people and organizations love it so much.
    - koolba 5y ago
      Indeed. If you think the results from yesterday were a shellacking, imagine the carnage if there was no early or mail-in voting. In VA in particular there were ballots cast as early as late September. Given the turn of the contest in the final weeks, nobody could say with a straight face they would have all lined up to vote for McAuliffe in person. There's a reason certain groups want to bank those votes in advance.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        No one is forced to vote early with mail in ballots.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I think you can have a secret ballot with mail in too if you drop it off in person.
- BikiniPrince 5y ago
  The book is terrible. I toss it out and read the proposal or at the worst look it up on a few sites that track issues. There is not enough information for complex issues and the wording in my experience is very biased. It takes me more time to vote, but at least I can make an informed decision.
adolph 5y ago
> People where I live get a ballot and a book in the mail weeks before the election with details for all the candidates and questions, and all you have to do is drop it in the outgoing mail. Are the votes not secret or are the votes not verified as authentic?
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Votes are secret and verified to ensure there is only 1 vote per person. https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/faq_vote_by_mail.aspx https://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/faq_vote_by_mail.aspx

dlp211 5y ago

It's not that simple. There was a multi-million dollar (I believe it was $18MM) coordinated campaign against Sweeny in 2017 that failed. It wasn't about offering voters a choice, they've had choices in the past.

stickyricky 5y ago
You're right its not. But there's something to be said for voting for one of two insiders or an insider versus an outsider. I don't think Mr. Durr's achievement is replicable. In my opinion, significant election reform is necessary.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

syngrog66 5y ago

> Well come to find about, of the 500 people who signed the petition to get this kid on the ballot, 1200 rescinded their support. > You do the math. I did and, well... squints at those numbers

stickyricky 5y ago
"The Chicago-School of Mathematics".

caseysoftware 5y ago

Grew up near Chicago but long gone before this happened so I looked it up: > Krupa needed 473 valid signatures of ward residents to get on the ballot. He filed 1,729 signatures with the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners. He earlier said he filed 1,703 but missed a page of signatures. > A crew of mysterious political workers — perhaps they were Buddhist monks, or the gentle sun people known as the Eloi, or maybe Madigan precinct captains — filed 2,796 petitions of revocation of signature. That means 2,796 ward residents filed legal affidavits that they wanted their signatures taken off Krupa’s petitions. > The Madigan men filed 187 affidavits of revocation matching Krupa signatures. But Dorf, a progressive who’d done election work for the late Mayor Harold Washington and former President Barack Obama, put in a Freedom of Information Act request asking the board to give him all the revocations affidavits that were filed. > All 2,796 of them. > “And that’s where the fraud comes in, that’s where the felonies come in,” Dorf said. “Almost 2,800 affidavits were filed. But only 1,726 people signed petitions for Krupa. And of the 2,800 affidavits, the 13th Ward could only find 187 signatures that matched. > Subtract 187 from 2,796 and you get 2,609 — that’s a lot of possible felonies, either perjury or voter intimidation. Ref: https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-met-chicago-13th-ward-alderman-election-kass-20181215-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/john-kass/ct-met-chic...

BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
We’ve got some pretty convincing evidence of corruption and election fraud here. BUT, rest assured this is extremely rare and these same people wouldn’t dare tamper with any other kind of election. Nor would this happen anywhere else in the United States. Anyone who asserts an election was subject to fraud is attacking democracy itself. /s
- ejstronge 5y ago
  > Anyone who asserts an election was subject to fraud is attacking democracy itself. /s I trust you are referring to problems with the 2020 election? I would appreciate learning what analogies you see between mob-like coercion and the election