3 ms·

Not being able to sell to US firms/agencies will greatly reduce their potential revenue. Less money coming in means less money to spend on the black market for

Not being able to sell to US firms/agencies will greatly reduce their potential revenue. Less money coming in means less money to spend on the black market for exploits, which means less incentive for security researches to sell to NSO. Edit: I apparently didn't read closely enough

xxpor 5y ago
Oh this is much worse than that. They can't (in theory) buy any US software or hardware. That's essentially everything. Including mainstream x86 and ARM implementations. And Linux. And Windows. and iOS. And most foreign software, since nearly everything includes various libraries, which have Americans writing code for them. This is the same list Huawei was added to.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > Oh this is much worse than that. They can't (in theory) buy any US software or hardware. Practically speaking, it also means they and their affiliates will have a difficult time maintaining bank accounts and getting financing.
  - xxpor 5y ago
    Yeah, and that's the real enforcement mechanism. No one's going to stop them from walking into a store and buying a copy of Windows (is that even a thing you can do any more regardless?)
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Well it's a good thing you can't download software anonymously from any place on the internet. That'll show 'em we're serious by telling them no. /s toothless is toothless no matter if it is wrapped in state level dressings.
      - xxpor 5y ago
        But on the other hand, for anything physical you wish to buy on the internet, it's nearly impossible to be completely anonymous. Or at least a much bigger pain in the ass.
        cutemonster 5y ago
        Maybe the employees will need to buy their own laptops etc as freelancers or something, and then they'll get reimbursed
      - wolverine876 5y ago
        In organizations, that's not how acquisition works - you acquire licenses in bulk, implement a licensing server (or use the vendor's), etc., and like consumers, your license has to be authenticated. Also, much software is hosted now (e.g., Office 365) or has hosted elements, and many licenses are subscriptions. And after all that, acquisition is a minor part of IT. Support, for example, is more critical, and also maintenance, such as patches, upgrades, etc. It does depend on how large the organization is, but even at 10-20 users, you want that kind of scaled up administration. Implementing IT with no access to US vendors would be a PITA. No Microsoft Windows or Office, no Google Apps, no Red Hat, no Apple .... How could that be done? Will some flavor of Linux suffice? Would it be in compliance with their license?
        dylan604 5y ago
        We're talking about a group of glorified hackers working as an organization. You really think they won't be able to aquire what they need?
        wolverine876 5y ago
        > We're talking about a group of glorified hackers working as an organization. Is that how they are? Seriously, I wonder about their organizational culture. Many security firms are very corporate. Many such firms in Israel come out of their military, which suggests a different culture. Some are a bunch of hackers, but it would be hard to be effective in selling to and retaining large institutional customers, or even running your own organization from day to day. And how large are they? > You really think they won't be able to aquire what they need? They expose themselves to lawsuits - they are trying to operate in the legal business domain. And again, acquisition is only a fraction of IT (see the GP).
- mrtesthah 5y ago
  Well, that sounds great!

xxpor 5y ago

Oh this is much worse than that. They can't (in theory) buy any US software or hardware. That's essentially everything. Including mainstream x86 and ARM implementations. And Linux. And Windows. and iOS. And most foreign software, since nearly everything includes various libraries, which have Americans writing code for them. This is the same list Huawei was added to.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> Oh this is much worse than that. They can't (in theory) buy any US software or hardware. Practically speaking, it also means they and their affiliates will have a difficult time maintaining bank accounts and getting financing.
- xxpor 5y ago
  Yeah, and that's the real enforcement mechanism. No one's going to stop them from walking into a store and buying a copy of Windows (is that even a thing you can do any more regardless?)
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Well it's a good thing you can't download software anonymously from any place on the internet. That'll show 'em we're serious by telling them no. /s toothless is toothless no matter if it is wrapped in state level dressings.
    - xxpor 5y ago
      But on the other hand, for anything physical you wish to buy on the internet, it's nearly impossible to be completely anonymous. Or at least a much bigger pain in the ass.
      - cutemonster 5y ago
        Maybe the employees will need to buy their own laptops etc as freelancers or something, and then they'll get reimbursed
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      In organizations, that's not how acquisition works - you acquire licenses in bulk, implement a licensing server (or use the vendor's), etc., and like consumers, your license has to be authenticated. Also, much software is hosted now (e.g., Office 365) or has hosted elements, and many licenses are subscriptions. And after all that, acquisition is a minor part of IT. Support, for example, is more critical, and also maintenance, such as patches, upgrades, etc. It does depend on how large the organization is, but even at 10-20 users, you want that kind of scaled up administration. Implementing IT with no access to US vendors would be a PITA. No Microsoft Windows or Office, no Google Apps, no Red Hat, no Apple .... How could that be done? Will some flavor of Linux suffice? Would it be in compliance with their license?
      - dylan604 5y ago
        We're talking about a group of glorified hackers working as an organization. You really think they won't be able to aquire what they need?
        wolverine876 5y ago
        > We're talking about a group of glorified hackers working as an organization. Is that how they are? Seriously, I wonder about their organizational culture. Many security firms are very corporate. Many such firms in Israel come out of their military, which suggests a different culture. Some are a bunch of hackers, but it would be hard to be effective in selling to and retaining large institutional customers, or even running your own organization from day to day. And how large are they? > You really think they won't be able to aquire what they need? They expose themselves to lawsuits - they are trying to operate in the legal business domain. And again, acquisition is only a fraction of IT (see the GP).
mrtesthah 5y ago
Well, that sounds great!