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Those numbers don't really tell the whole truth; federal spending has increased almost monotonically, and the changes in deficit mostly indicate phases of the b

by nickff 5y ago

Those numbers don't really tell the whole truth; federal spending has increased almost monotonically, and the changes in deficit mostly indicate phases of the business cycle when they left. See this chart:https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/04/what-does-the-federal-government-spend-your-tax-dollars-on-social-insurance-programs-mostly/ft_17-04-03_budget_420px/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/04/04/what-does-t... Clinton for example, left at the peak of the DotCom bubble, and was bouyed by capital gains tax revenue, whereas Bush left during the Great Recession.

CalChris 5y ago
Reagan cut taxes (supply side). Clinton increased taxes and cut Cold War era defense spending in his 1993 budget proposal. W didn't even put the Afghanistan and Iraq wars on normal budgeting. That emergency spending went straight to debt. When Obama reversed this accounting trick, he was accused of increasing the deficit. Yes, everything is more complicated.
- cafard 5y ago
  Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan's summary of the 1980s: "We borrowed a trillion dollars from foreigners, and threw ourselves a party."
  - CalChris 5y ago
    Yep, Reagan, H and W Bush took us from being the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation.
    - chrisco255 5y ago
      And Obama added $10T to that debt, borrowing more than nearly every president before him combined. Cherry picking is a terrible tactic.
      - CalChris 5y ago
        Obama inherited W's Great Recession with its 10% unemployment and its cratered tax revenues. This is similar to FDR inheriting Hoover's Great Depression. Obama spent his 8 years digging out of that hole. His one initiative was the ACA which is still intact even after the Republicans had all three branches of government and is quite popular. Moreover, just as Afghanistan and Iraq were disastrous wars of choice, W's tax cuts, Medicare Part D and his zero down payment home loan programs were the direct cause of that recession.
        chrisco255 5y ago
        Obama wasted money on programs like cash for clunkers, failed climate scandals like Solyndra, and engaged in similar "nation-building" as W by sacking the dictator of Libya, which partly led to the rise of ISIS in his second term. It was a complete mess for the middle east and Europe and cost countless lives. Obama and W. were cut from the same cloth and listened to the same bureaucratic Pentagon consensus. There was virtually no difference between the two. That's why they are such good friends, by the way. Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters and Obama had 8 years to end them but never did.
        CalChris 5y ago
        Cash For Clunkers was a brilliant idea given the economy, the one in free fall that W left Obama. BTW, it was overwhelming opposed by Republicans. That's because McConnell wanted Obama to be a one term president. Everyone wanted Gadaffi gone, even Putin. Hence the UN resolutions. It was funny that Gingrich was calling for intervention ... until the next day. Complaining that W and Obama are on good terms? Wow.
- chrisco255 5y ago
  Clinton's tax increase cost the Democrats the House in 1994. Obama clearly did increase the deficit as national debt went from $10T to $19.5T during his tenure. In other words, the debt increased by nearly as much as every president prior to Obama. Of course, we seem to find ourselves on an irreversible debt slope that is rapidly accelerating and I suspect that every future administration will outspend the one prior.
  - rsj_hn 5y ago
    > Obama clearly did increase the deficit as national debt went from $10T to $19.5T during his tenure. To discuss this without mentioning the Global Financial crisis seems a bit disingenuous. I'm no fan of Obama but this is not a valid criticism, IMO.
  - CalChris 5y ago
    Yes, Clinton's budget, his tax increases and defense spending cuts, they did cost the Democrats the House. Gingrich voted against that budget, then campaigned against it, winning the Speakership, then shut the government down over it, twice, and then after it turned a profit, tried/tries to take credit for it. Obama didn't increase that debt by spending. He did it by inheriting Bush's Great Recession with its sky high unemployment and lack of tax revenues. He managed to decrease the deficit each year until his last. Obama's singular spending initiative, the ACA or Obamacare, is dirt cheap compared to the $6T of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. And then there's Medicare Part D. BTW, the ACA cost the Democrats the House as well. Some things are worth fighting for.
runako 5y ago
> Clinton for example, left at the peak of the DotCom bubble, and was bouyed by capital gains tax revenue, whereas Bush left during the Great Recession. Deficit increases under these presidents isn't as much on the business cycle as you indicate. For example, Clinton enjoyed higher capital gains tax revenue, but he also signed legislation to increase taxes (which obviously impact the deficit). Conversely, Bush chose not to include substantial additional revenue in his recession-era emergency spending plans. Both were policy choices that entirely support the OP's point. In fact, although Trump and Biden were not included in the list, they are following the same schema. Trump cut tax revenue and then didn't offset massive deficit spending on his way out the door. Biden's signature economic plan is stalled in part because he is making efforts at offsetting spending with increased revenue.

by nickff 5y ago

CalChris 5y ago

Reagan cut taxes (supply side). Clinton increased taxes and cut Cold War era defense spending in his 1993 budget proposal. W didn't even put the Afghanistan and Iraq wars on normal budgeting. That emergency spending went straight to debt. When Obama reversed this accounting trick, he was accused of increasing the deficit. Yes, everything is more complicated.

cafard 5y ago
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan's summary of the 1980s: "We borrowed a trillion dollars from foreigners, and threw ourselves a party."
- CalChris 5y ago
  Yep, Reagan, H and W Bush took us from being the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation.
  - chrisco255 5y ago
    And Obama added $10T to that debt, borrowing more than nearly every president before him combined. Cherry picking is a terrible tactic.
    - CalChris 5y ago
      Obama inherited W's Great Recession with its 10% unemployment and its cratered tax revenues. This is similar to FDR inheriting Hoover's Great Depression. Obama spent his 8 years digging out of that hole. His one initiative was the ACA which is still intact even after the Republicans had all three branches of government and is quite popular. Moreover, just as Afghanistan and Iraq were disastrous wars of choice, W's tax cuts, Medicare Part D and his zero down payment home loan programs were the direct cause of that recession.
      - chrisco255 5y ago
        Obama wasted money on programs like cash for clunkers, failed climate scandals like Solyndra, and engaged in similar "nation-building" as W by sacking the dictator of Libya, which partly led to the rise of ISIS in his second term. It was a complete mess for the middle east and Europe and cost countless lives. Obama and W. were cut from the same cloth and listened to the same bureaucratic Pentagon consensus. There was virtually no difference between the two. That's why they are such good friends, by the way. Afghanistan and Iraq were disasters and Obama had 8 years to end them but never did.
        CalChris 5y ago
        Cash For Clunkers was a brilliant idea given the economy, the one in free fall that W left Obama. BTW, it was overwhelming opposed by Republicans. That's because McConnell wanted Obama to be a one term president. Everyone wanted Gadaffi gone, even Putin. Hence the UN resolutions. It was funny that Gingrich was calling for intervention ... until the next day. Complaining that W and Obama are on good terms? Wow.
chrisco255 5y ago
Clinton's tax increase cost the Democrats the House in 1994. Obama clearly did increase the deficit as national debt went from $10T to $19.5T during his tenure. In other words, the debt increased by nearly as much as every president prior to Obama. Of course, we seem to find ourselves on an irreversible debt slope that is rapidly accelerating and I suspect that every future administration will outspend the one prior.
- rsj_hn 5y ago
  > Obama clearly did increase the deficit as national debt went from $10T to $19.5T during his tenure. To discuss this without mentioning the Global Financial crisis seems a bit disingenuous. I'm no fan of Obama but this is not a valid criticism, IMO.
- CalChris 5y ago
  Yes, Clinton's budget, his tax increases and defense spending cuts, they did cost the Democrats the House. Gingrich voted against that budget, then campaigned against it, winning the Speakership, then shut the government down over it, twice, and then after it turned a profit, tried/tries to take credit for it. Obama didn't increase that debt by spending. He did it by inheriting Bush's Great Recession with its sky high unemployment and lack of tax revenues. He managed to decrease the deficit each year until his last. Obama's singular spending initiative, the ACA or Obamacare, is dirt cheap compared to the $6T of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. And then there's Medicare Part D. BTW, the ACA cost the Democrats the House as well. Some things are worth fighting for.

runako 5y ago

> Clinton for example, left at the peak of the DotCom bubble, and was bouyed by capital gains tax revenue, whereas Bush left during the Great Recession. Deficit increases under these presidents isn't as much on the business cycle as you indicate. For example, Clinton enjoyed higher capital gains tax revenue, but he also signed legislation to increase taxes (which obviously impact the deficit). Conversely, Bush chose not to include substantial additional revenue in his recession-era emergency spending plans. Both were policy choices that entirely support the OP's point. In fact, although Trump and Biden were not included in the list, they are following the same schema. Trump cut tax revenue and then didn't offset massive deficit spending on his way out the door. Biden's signature economic plan is stalled in part because he is making efforts at offsetting spending with increased revenue.