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> Cryptos = suck that energy out of the power grid to gamble with one another. All crypto currencies are used for gambling? Can you give us a good solution to

by azth 5y ago

> Cryptos = suck that energy out of the power grid to gamble with one another. All crypto currencies are used for gambling? Can you give us a good solution to hedge against government induced inflation that does not involve usury or having enough cash to purchase property outright to rent it out? Note: almost all companies deal with interest in some way or another, even if they don't need to, so usury is embedded in their stocks.

honkycat 5y ago
Can you give us a good solution to keep the price of bread from rising above the ability for impoverished people to purchase it over government induced inflation? Oh right, I'm dealing with someone who believes in the "free market" while plugging their ears when people talk about subsidies for the gas, meat, defense, and other "profitable" industries.
- azth 5y ago
  > Oh right, I'm dealing with someone who believes in the "free market" I don't believe in absolute free market as defined by capitalism. Case in point: I do not deal with interest (usury), as it is prohibited in my faith. There are also some other red lines which I will not get into here, as it is not the subject of discussion. I'm happy to go into them more though if someone is curious. As such, no, it is not your typical capitalistic position. > Can you give us a good solution to keep the price of bread from rising above the ability for impoverished people to purchase it over government induced inflation? Yes. In Islam, we have something called Zakat, a form of "wealth tax" if you will. Its proceedings go to impoverished people, among others. It has been documented that in Iraq during the Ummayad period, there were no poor people left to even accept Zakat, after everyone was paying their share. Of course we still need to handle the root cause: move to a currency that is not bound to interest that keeps growing, and the government can print money at will, devaluing everyone's hard work in an instant.
  - honkycat 5y ago
    Interesting! I didn't know about Zakat and Islams relation to usury. Thank you for educating me!
    - azth 5y ago
      Any time :)
  - pfortuny 5y ago
    Interest is not the same as usury whatever definition you use. The fact that your faith equates them does not make them equal. You are perfectly free to use them interchangeably in your mind but most people do not do so, and your use leads to misunderstandings. Interest, in traditional western societies is just the measure of the present value of future time, which is understood as valuable. Thus, money+time=“more money”.
    - azth 5y ago
      > Interest is not the same as usury whatever definition you use. In Islam, there is no difference. If I lend you $10,000 and I ask for $10,000.01 back, that $.01 is usury. They are equal because both operate on the same exploitation principle, that not only pries on the poor, but exacerbates the wealth inequality gap that everyone is complaining about today. Once the door is open to artificially differentiate the two, many other immoral things become acceptable. We've seen it time and time again. We don't deny the time value of money, we jus say that use money in a moral way to extract value over time, by taking appropriate risk in a manner that is not exploitative.
      - ilammy 5y ago
        > use money in a moral way to extract value over time, by taking appropriate risk in a manner that is not exploitative I've been reading on islamic banking recently, and I have to say that it appears one can arrive at a consistent philosophy and working economics with usury being prohibited. The world won't grind to a halt because capital is no longer entitled to gains by the virtue of purely existing, as opposed to being used productively. (Observe PoS vs PoW parallels, in the theme of this submission.) You can lend money and earn a profit without interest, and you can pay for getting a credit without it being immoral. The trick is that both parties share both the gains and the risk, not just the lender being responsible for all the risk.

by azth 5y ago

honkycat 5y ago

Can you give us a good solution to keep the price of bread from rising above the ability for impoverished people to purchase it over government induced inflation? Oh right, I'm dealing with someone who believes in the "free market" while plugging their ears when people talk about subsidies for the gas, meat, defense, and other "profitable" industries.

azth 5y ago
> Oh right, I'm dealing with someone who believes in the "free market" I don't believe in absolute free market as defined by capitalism. Case in point: I do not deal with interest (usury), as it is prohibited in my faith. There are also some other red lines which I will not get into here, as it is not the subject of discussion. I'm happy to go into them more though if someone is curious. As such, no, it is not your typical capitalistic position. > Can you give us a good solution to keep the price of bread from rising above the ability for impoverished people to purchase it over government induced inflation? Yes. In Islam, we have something called Zakat, a form of "wealth tax" if you will. Its proceedings go to impoverished people, among others. It has been documented that in Iraq during the Ummayad period, there were no poor people left to even accept Zakat, after everyone was paying their share. Of course we still need to handle the root cause: move to a currency that is not bound to interest that keeps growing, and the government can print money at will, devaluing everyone's hard work in an instant.
- honkycat 5y ago
  Interesting! I didn't know about Zakat and Islams relation to usury. Thank you for educating me!
  - azth 5y ago
    Any time :)
- pfortuny 5y ago
  Interest is not the same as usury whatever definition you use. The fact that your faith equates them does not make them equal. You are perfectly free to use them interchangeably in your mind but most people do not do so, and your use leads to misunderstandings. Interest, in traditional western societies is just the measure of the present value of future time, which is understood as valuable. Thus, money+time=“more money”.
  - azth 5y ago
    > Interest is not the same as usury whatever definition you use. In Islam, there is no difference. If I lend you $10,000 and I ask for $10,000.01 back, that $.01 is usury. They are equal because both operate on the same exploitation principle, that not only pries on the poor, but exacerbates the wealth inequality gap that everyone is complaining about today. Once the door is open to artificially differentiate the two, many other immoral things become acceptable. We've seen it time and time again. We don't deny the time value of money, we jus say that use money in a moral way to extract value over time, by taking appropriate risk in a manner that is not exploitative.
    - ilammy 5y ago
      > use money in a moral way to extract value over time, by taking appropriate risk in a manner that is not exploitative I've been reading on islamic banking recently, and I have to say that it appears one can arrive at a consistent philosophy and working economics with usury being prohibited. The world won't grind to a halt because capital is no longer entitled to gains by the virtue of purely existing, as opposed to being used productively. (Observe PoS vs PoW parallels, in the theme of this submission.) You can lend money and earn a profit without interest, and you can pay for getting a credit without it being immoral. The trick is that both parties share both the gains and the risk, not just the lender being responsible for all the risk.