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This. Any talk of "labor shortage" should be seen for what it is: a request for subsidized immigration to keep labor costs low. I highly recommend this paper

This. Any talk of "labor shortage" should be seen for what it is: a request for subsidized immigration to keep labor costs low. I highly recommend this paper from the '90s. It's just as relevant today as it was then. https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/Weinstein-GUI_NSF_SG_Complete_INET.pdf https://www.ineteconomics.org/uploads/papers/Weinstein-GUI_N... To be clear, there is a place for H1-B and O-2 visas, but they are systematically abused, especially in the tech sector.

cogman10 5y ago
I don't have a problem allowing an unlimited number of H1-B/O-2. What I have a problem with is their salary is FAR too low. To bring someone in from a foreign market they should be earning the top 10% of income for their field. The fact that they are synonymous with "cheap" is a major issue with the way the system works. The current H1-B minimum salary is $60k That's FAR too low. They should be earning at least double that number so as not to artificially depress wages in the US. It creates perverse incentives for companies to "look" but not find employees (unless they are willing to take a sub H1-B wage). But further, H1-B employees are often in a terrible power dynamic. Being fired from their job often means being deported.
- thatfrenchguy 5y ago
  > The current H1-B minimum salary is $60k That's FAR too low. They should be earning at least double that number so as not to artificially depress wages in the US. You can't compare H1B salaries for like nurses in the midwest with tech salaries though. H1B salaries also have a tendency to be under-reported (because they're base salaries): if you look at my L-1 form, it says a salary that's at worst half of what I made in my worst year in the United States.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  > I don't have a problem allowing an unlimited number of H1-B/O-2. There is a huge problem with allowing unlimited immigration of any category of people. Resources and space are finite. One country can only hold so many people and still offer a comfortable and safe life, just like one home can only hold so many people.
  - cogman10 5y ago
    And the number of people seeking H1B status and the amount of money companies have to pay for H1Bs is finite so it's not technically unlimited, more of "as many as can be hired". Our country can hold the world's population of high skill individuals seeking H1B status. It certainly can hold the number of individuals companies would seek to fill those roles (assuming salary is adjusted such that they'll not abuse the system).
    - silicon2401 5y ago
      > Our country can hold the world's population of high skill individuals seeking H1B status. It certainly can hold the number of individuals companies would seek to fill those roles (assuming salary is adjusted such that they'll not abuse the system). We've reached a point where our opinions simply differ. I don't think our country can hold nearly as many people as you say, nor do I think it should. I'd rather help our existing population of high skill individuals get jobs, train up everybody else to see how many more people reach a high level of skill, and then if we really do find ourselves short of labor, slowly open up to people from abroad.
newbie789 5y ago
Wait, if I as an individual were to say “I want higher wages and better working conditions” what I’m actually saying is “I’m engaging in a concerted conspiracy to drive down wages because uh, I love corporate profits so much“? What sort of doublespeak actually arrives at “I want higher wages and better working conditions” after going through this (possibly proprietary to you?) process of unpacking the ~real meaning~ of people’s words?
nuerow 5y ago
> This. Any talk of "labor shortage" should be seen for what it is: a request for subsidized immigration to keep labor costs low. Salary is not the only significant parameter. Awful working conditions also makes it very difficult to attract and retain employees, even if they are well paid. See for instance how one notoriously abusive FANG is currently experiencing high "regretted attrition" rates in spite of paying FANG-level wages.
908B64B197 5y ago
> To be clear, there is a place for H1-B and O-2 visas, but they are systematically abused, especially in the tech sector. The last administration actually started doing something about it, and issued a lot more RFE for fraudulent applications.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
newbie789 5y ago
It’s a real bummer that you couldn’t answer my question.

cogman10 5y ago

I don't have a problem allowing an unlimited number of H1-B/O-2. What I have a problem with is their salary is FAR too low. To bring someone in from a foreign market they should be earning the top 10% of income for their field. The fact that they are synonymous with "cheap" is a major issue with the way the system works. The current H1-B minimum salary is $60k That's FAR too low. They should be earning at least double that number so as not to artificially depress wages in the US. It creates perverse incentives for companies to "look" but not find employees (unless they are willing to take a sub H1-B wage). But further, H1-B employees are often in a terrible power dynamic. Being fired from their job often means being deported.

thatfrenchguy 5y ago
> The current H1-B minimum salary is $60k That's FAR too low. They should be earning at least double that number so as not to artificially depress wages in the US. You can't compare H1B salaries for like nurses in the midwest with tech salaries though. H1B salaries also have a tendency to be under-reported (because they're base salaries): if you look at my L-1 form, it says a salary that's at worst half of what I made in my worst year in the United States.
silicon2401 5y ago
> I don't have a problem allowing an unlimited number of H1-B/O-2. There is a huge problem with allowing unlimited immigration of any category of people. Resources and space are finite. One country can only hold so many people and still offer a comfortable and safe life, just like one home can only hold so many people.
- cogman10 5y ago
  And the number of people seeking H1B status and the amount of money companies have to pay for H1Bs is finite so it's not technically unlimited, more of "as many as can be hired". Our country can hold the world's population of high skill individuals seeking H1B status. It certainly can hold the number of individuals companies would seek to fill those roles (assuming salary is adjusted such that they'll not abuse the system).
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    > Our country can hold the world's population of high skill individuals seeking H1B status. It certainly can hold the number of individuals companies would seek to fill those roles (assuming salary is adjusted such that they'll not abuse the system). We've reached a point where our opinions simply differ. I don't think our country can hold nearly as many people as you say, nor do I think it should. I'd rather help our existing population of high skill individuals get jobs, train up everybody else to see how many more people reach a high level of skill, and then if we really do find ourselves short of labor, slowly open up to people from abroad.

newbie789 5y ago

Wait, if I as an individual were to say “I want higher wages and better working conditions” what I’m actually saying is “I’m engaging in a concerted conspiracy to drive down wages because uh, I love corporate profits so much“? What sort of doublespeak actually arrives at “I want higher wages and better working conditions” after going through this (possibly proprietary to you?) process of unpacking the ~real meaning~ of people’s words?

nuerow 5y ago

> This. Any talk of "labor shortage" should be seen for what it is: a request for subsidized immigration to keep labor costs low. Salary is not the only significant parameter. Awful working conditions also makes it very difficult to attract and retain employees, even if they are well paid. See for instance how one notoriously abusive FANG is currently experiencing high "regretted attrition" rates in spite of paying FANG-level wages.

908B64B197 5y ago

> To be clear, there is a place for H1-B and O-2 visas, but they are systematically abused, especially in the tech sector. The last administration actually started doing something about it, and issued a lot more RFE for fraudulent applications.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

newbie789 5y ago

It’s a real bummer that you couldn’t answer my question.