4 ms·

Companies can be disbanded and reformed. The people in charge can distance themselves from the "failed" attempt and make a new, nonblacklisted one. That's why p

Companies can be disbanded and reformed. The people in charge can distance themselves from the "failed" attempt and make a new, nonblacklisted one. That's why punishment and blacklisting has to extend to decision-makers, rather then flimsy symbolic entities.

eli 5y ago
In this hypothetical, creating a new entity seems like a fair bit of work, but adding the new entity to the list so it faces the same controls is trivial. What am I missing? I certainly wouldn't send technology subject to export control to anyone I knew to be a part of NSO Group or any successor.
- shawnz 5y ago
  If this was done as a reaction to changing public opinion and not genuine concern, then it will be a while before public opinion catches up with the new entity.
  - alwayseasy 5y ago
    I doubt the people at the US Treasury would be blind to such an obvious maneuver. Not matter what the public opinion says I think they won't let NSO try and evade their blacklist.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> Companies can be disbanded and reformed This is the U.S. Treasury. The concerns you're worried about have been contemplated.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  Exactly. Which means that it's intentional to leave this relatively meaningless, more posturing and a slap on the wrist instead of an actual punishment for the people involved. If they really wanted to stop this kind of activity, they'd sanction the individuals involved. This would deter others from forming a successor - would you accept an extremely well paid job if there was a risk that the US will put you on its official international shitlist for that?
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > it's intentional to leave this relatively meaningless That's not how the Entity or SDN lists work. Every individual ever employed by NSO Group is going to start having difficulties with their bank and securities accounts starting today. Affiliation with a blacklisted entity moves you from "person who does not generate hits on OFAC" to "person who does." For many institutions, that's a dealbreaker. You can't get around a blacklist by shutting down shop and re-starting under a new name. These are old, battle-hardened tools originally designed to go after state actors. The loopholes have been thoroughly explored.

eli 5y ago

In this hypothetical, creating a new entity seems like a fair bit of work, but adding the new entity to the list so it faces the same controls is trivial. What am I missing? I certainly wouldn't send technology subject to export control to anyone I knew to be a part of NSO Group or any successor.

shawnz 5y ago
If this was done as a reaction to changing public opinion and not genuine concern, then it will be a while before public opinion catches up with the new entity.
- alwayseasy 5y ago
  I doubt the people at the US Treasury would be blind to such an obvious maneuver. Not matter what the public opinion says I think they won't let NSO try and evade their blacklist.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> Companies can be disbanded and reformed This is the U.S. Treasury. The concerns you're worried about have been contemplated.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
Exactly. Which means that it's intentional to leave this relatively meaningless, more posturing and a slap on the wrist instead of an actual punishment for the people involved. If they really wanted to stop this kind of activity, they'd sanction the individuals involved. This would deter others from forming a successor - would you accept an extremely well paid job if there was a risk that the US will put you on its official international shitlist for that?
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > it's intentional to leave this relatively meaningless That's not how the Entity or SDN lists work. Every individual ever employed by NSO Group is going to start having difficulties with their bank and securities accounts starting today. Affiliation with a blacklisted entity moves you from "person who does not generate hits on OFAC" to "person who does." For many institutions, that's a dealbreaker. You can't get around a blacklist by shutting down shop and re-starting under a new name. These are old, battle-hardened tools originally designed to go after state actors. The loopholes have been thoroughly explored.