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Considering how powerful politically Israel is in the US and how seemingly the NSO Group was government-sanctioned, this seems crazy to me. I would not be sill
by boardwaalk 5y ago
Considering how powerful politically Israel is in the US and how seemingly the NSO Group was government-sanctioned, this seems crazy to me.
I would not be silly enough to think this means less unconditional support for Israel in general, though. NSO Group just specifically got too toxic.
- goboronshka 5y agoIsrael is hardly powerful in the US. US foreign policy is overall pretty antisemitic. Israel would own half of Egypt at least if the US didn't drive them out in the Yom Kippur War.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoSays whom? Israelis themselves prided themselves on invading but with every intention to not take Egyptian land. Israelis weren’t driven out, they beat Egypt to show their power and created a good relationship with them. No Israeli I have ever talked to says half of Egypt should have been theirs or the US drove them out, they always make a point they bargain and prefer peace. I'd like you to define how US policy is "antisemitic". Why are these horrible US antisemites giving Israel military aid and money?
- wolverine876 5y agoAlso, I cannot imagine Israel would want to conduct an occupation of half of Egypt. Look at the difficulty of occupying the Palestinian territories. Look at US occupations recently, and the US has far more resources and Egypt would be far more hostile to Israel than Iraq and Afghanistan were to the US.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoI have never heard such crazy ideas before from anyone. Its completely ridiculous, not even the most fringe right wing Yigal Amir supporting Israeli would say what he did.
- baybal2 5y agoVery much so, a paradox given millions flying in defence aid to both Egypt, and Israel. The kind of lobbyists in Washington are not rooting for the secular state of Israel, but pretty much specifically for the orthodox Haradrim, or the kind of Neftali Bennet. Equally so, Israelis hating Arabs don't preclude them propping up the criminal Saudi state, and a small portion of Saudi elites who hate Turkey.
- handrous 5y agoIsrael and Egypt both being top recipients of US aid is part of the peace arrangement. Egypt is by far Israel's strongest neighbor, militarily. No coalition of neighboring states has any chance defeating Israel without them, so the US pays Egypt not to mess around with Israel.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoEgypt was defeated by Israel who had no intention of keeping their land, and they have had a better relationship than most other countries in that region for a long time.
- handrous 5y agoOK? The US aid arrangement is also part of the whole thing, though. [EDIT] Oh damn, when did Jordan rocket up the list of US aid recipients? I gotta start keeping up with geopolitical shenanigans again, I'm clearly behind the times. But yes, the Egypt thing was, if not publicly the case, one of those open-secret things that're taken for granted in poli-sci and policy circles, like "Israel has nukes", or "the US removing MRBMs from Turkey was part of the deal for keeping Soviet nukes out of Cuba". The US pays Egypt not to mess with Israel.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoIt’s as useful as the money they used in Afghanistan. This isn’t the 70s anymore. Egypt isn’t incentivized to battle Israel, and Israel isn’t incapable of defending itself.
- sudosysgen 5y agoWithout US support Israel would have had to deal with the full might of the USSR.
- KoftaBob 5y agoYou are either unbelievably uninformed, or you’re purposely spreading nonsense to defend Israel.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoI have never heard once of an Israeli who thought Egypt belonged to them after the war. This viewpoint is so foreign from any Israeli I ever spoken to it’s completely new.
- KoftaBob 5y ago> Israel is hardly powerful in the US. US foreign policy is overall pretty antisemitic. I was speaking more so to this first part of their statement. Someone making this claim is very uninformed on geopolitics.
- Minor49er 5y agoOn the contrary, the US gives $3.8 billion to Israel every year in military aid alone https://ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html https://ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html
- servytor 5y agoIn 2020, we gave more foreign aid to Egypt + Jordan than we did to Israel[0], for the others that are going to bring up foreign aid. [0]: https://foreignassistance.gov/cd https://foreignassistance.gov/cd
- daemoens 5y agoYou're combining both countries though? Israel was still the largest receiver in the region.
- wolverine876 5y agoAFAIK, a major reason the US gives aid to Egypt and Jordan is to buy peace for Israel and the Mideast. Certainly if they attacked Israel, that would be the end of the line for those two countries. IIRC, Egypt's aid is tied to the Camp David peace agreement with Israel.
- obiwan14 5y ago> Israel is hardly powerful in the US. In the words of a famous ex-tennis player, "You can't be serious, man. You can not be serious!" I don't know any other country able to influence US domestic and foreign policy more than Israel. Feel free to name one.
- miohtama 5y ago> NSO Group just specifically got too toxic It would never have happened without good Western journalism. Basically NSO was allowed to operate unless they screw up. Which they did with all the scandals, making Israeli look like crooks.
- Fnoord 5y agoI'd put the attribution mainly on Citizen Lab [1], and they're not what I'd call Western journalism. Without them, there would've been nothing to report on. Ie. they did the technical research, and the funding behind such technical researchers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Lab https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Lab
- wizzwizz4 5y agoI considered Citizen Lab journalists when they came out with this. Highly-technical investigative journalists, maybe, but they were doing investigative journalism.