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The future you cite is also our past. In the 1930s most large urban cities had plenty of non-car transportation options, including electric-powered or cable-pul

The future you cite is also our past. In the 1930s most large urban cities had plenty of non-car transportation options, including electric-powered or cable-pulled streetcars, overhead-powered electric as well as gas-powered buses, trams, light rail, underground subways (since early 1900s in NYC), and hackneys of all sorts in the US and Europe and many other places around the world. In fact, it was the spread of gas-powered buses that killed much of the electric-powered streetcars in large cities in the US in the 1950s. With the growth of suburbs and loss of streetcars, the growth of cars in city centers grew unchecked as did air pollution and smog.

dantheman 5y ago
I know you like the film roger rabbit, but that's not why trams died.
- rexreed 5y ago
  It's not the entire reason but it's actually a key part of it [0]. Hey Roger Rabbit isn't entirely fiction but all the good parts are :) [0] https://www.planetizen.com/node/76622 https://www.planetizen.com/node/76622
  - jonny_eh 5y ago
    > It's not the entire reason but it's actually a key part of it [0]. I don't see that in your reference. It's a full-on debunking of the claim that it was a conspiracy.
    - rexreed 5y ago
      From the above referenced article: "For the record, there was a conspiracy according to the 1949 U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in UNITED STATES v. NATIONAL CITY LINES, Inc., et al. " and more to the point it actually says it up top in the title part of the article: "Yes, there was a conspiracy led by General Motors to replace streetcars with their buses in the 1930s." I know it was somewhat mingled with the other points in the article, but it was confirmed in a Supreme Court ruling that there was indeed a conspiracy by the National City Lines and others to buy up streetcar lines and close down operations. What the article says is that despite the conspiracy, the industry was already in decline, with the streetcar companies acquired because many were in bankruptcy. And as such, the decline can't be solely and specifically blamed on the conspiracy, which is a matter of trial case law at this point. What the conspiracy did was simply accelerate a process that might have been inevitable. This is why I'm saying (and Roger Rabbit) that it played a part, even if not the central part.
      - jonny_eh 5y ago
        I see, so there was a conspiracy, but it didn't matter.
        rexreed 5y ago
        This is a fantastic little video on this topic if you're interested in digging further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnFVBfhpprU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnFVBfhpprU. And a bit more from 60 minutes that makes a stronger point about the conspiracy and who was really motivated to make freeways and highways a reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WORIrHpC8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WORIrHpC8M
        jonny_eh 5y ago
        Oh, I love that channel but hadn't seen that video. Thanks!
      - jcranmer 5y ago
        > "For the record, there was a conspiracy according to the 1949 U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in UNITED STATES v. NATIONAL CITY LINES, Inc., et al. " That conspiracy was a conspiracy to monopolize bus operations, not a conspiracy to replace streetcars with buses. The streetcars themselves were replaced largely because the streetcar companies had already failed and were bankrupt, and the lower maintenance costs of buses vis-a-vis streetcars made them a better route to maintaining public transit.
xattt 5y ago
My mind goes to the healthcare staff who still have to report to their facility for 7:30 in the morning no matter the weather. There has been a lot of social change since the 1930s. Back then, nurses were seen as subservient and likely lived in residence attached to a hospital. Reporting for duty was not an issue on bad weather days. No one will live apart from their family in this day and age without appropriate compensation, like the way nurses do working for FHNIB nursing stations up north.

dantheman 5y ago

I know you like the film roger rabbit, but that's not why trams died.

rexreed 5y ago
It's not the entire reason but it's actually a key part of it [0]. Hey Roger Rabbit isn't entirely fiction but all the good parts are :) [0] https://www.planetizen.com/node/76622 https://www.planetizen.com/node/76622
- jonny_eh 5y ago
  > It's not the entire reason but it's actually a key part of it [0]. I don't see that in your reference. It's a full-on debunking of the claim that it was a conspiracy.
  - rexreed 5y ago
    From the above referenced article: "For the record, there was a conspiracy according to the 1949 U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in UNITED STATES v. NATIONAL CITY LINES, Inc., et al. " and more to the point it actually says it up top in the title part of the article: "Yes, there was a conspiracy led by General Motors to replace streetcars with their buses in the 1930s." I know it was somewhat mingled with the other points in the article, but it was confirmed in a Supreme Court ruling that there was indeed a conspiracy by the National City Lines and others to buy up streetcar lines and close down operations. What the article says is that despite the conspiracy, the industry was already in decline, with the streetcar companies acquired because many were in bankruptcy. And as such, the decline can't be solely and specifically blamed on the conspiracy, which is a matter of trial case law at this point. What the conspiracy did was simply accelerate a process that might have been inevitable. This is why I'm saying (and Roger Rabbit) that it played a part, even if not the central part.
    - jonny_eh 5y ago
      I see, so there was a conspiracy, but it didn't matter.
      - rexreed 5y ago
        This is a fantastic little video on this topic if you're interested in digging further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnFVBfhpprU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnFVBfhpprU. And a bit more from 60 minutes that makes a stronger point about the conspiracy and who was really motivated to make freeways and highways a reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WORIrHpC8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WORIrHpC8M
        jonny_eh 5y ago
        Oh, I love that channel but hadn't seen that video. Thanks!
    - jcranmer 5y ago
      > "For the record, there was a conspiracy according to the 1949 U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in UNITED STATES v. NATIONAL CITY LINES, Inc., et al. " That conspiracy was a conspiracy to monopolize bus operations, not a conspiracy to replace streetcars with buses. The streetcars themselves were replaced largely because the streetcar companies had already failed and were bankrupt, and the lower maintenance costs of buses vis-a-vis streetcars made them a better route to maintaining public transit.

xattt 5y ago

My mind goes to the healthcare staff who still have to report to their facility for 7:30 in the morning no matter the weather. There has been a lot of social change since the 1930s. Back then, nurses were seen as subservient and likely lived in residence attached to a hospital. Reporting for duty was not an issue on bad weather days. No one will live apart from their family in this day and age without appropriate compensation, like the way nurses do working for FHNIB nursing stations up north.