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> What are you supposed to say then? Which work orders? Which PRs? How much progress? Are they harder than expected? Easier? Any blockers? Anything that could

> What are you supposed to say then? Which work orders? Which PRs? How much progress? Are they harder than expected? Easier? Any blockers? Anything that could help? Standup isn’t just for managers. It’s for ICs to also communicate their needs, obstacles, concerns, or even just give everyone a heads up that a certain task is more difficult than expected. If you’re just searching for the bare minimum to say to get your manager to move on to the next person, it’s a waste. It’s only a few minutes, so take advantage of it for some quick bidirectional communication.

playpause 5y ago
What is an IC?
- bosie 5y ago
  Individual Contributor
- chaosite 5y ago
  Individual Contributor. A plain old developer, who does not manage other developers.
0des 5y ago
I'm always flabbergasted when someone asks what's the point. It would be a very different game if the captain on the field initiates the huddle and expects everyone to get jazzed about "ALRIGHT LETS THROW THE BALL SOME AND THEN WE WILL CATCH IT SOME AND THERE MAY BE RUNNING INVOLVED! LETS GO, ON THREE! ONE TWO THREE GO TEAM"
- g051051 5y ago
  The huddle is play selection, not design. It's also often dictated by the coach. TBH, I wonder what point a huddle serves in modern football anyway. Just how much control to the players on the field have, anyway?
  - 0des 5y ago
    The design doc discusses design, the standup aligns the team by discussing the 'play' if you don't mind me elaborating on this analogy.
    - g051051 5y ago
      I lack sufficient football knowledge to carry the analogy much further. My understanding is that there's no real discussion...the play is called by the coach, the QB (I expect) relays the play to the team in the huddle, and they execute it per the playbook that they all study. To be comparable, the standup would be where you get your work assigned for the day.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    The huddle is about the QB disseminating the play they are about to run - he's the only one allowed to (in pro football) have a radio link to the coach. Not to vote on the play that is about to be run. My guess is feedback about people's physical condition and needing to be pulled from the game is the only feedback allowed (other than a question if they forgot something about the play, I guess?)
  - ryathal 5y ago
    Modern football plays are far more dynamic than ever, if the defense shows man to man then do x, if they show zone do y, if they show blitz Z is the quick target, or if star receiver is mismatched then go deep.
- Jensson 5y ago
  The difference is that in a football game you don't have time to talk to each other during the game. In a software team you do have plenty of time and opportunities to talk as soon as a blocker or issue appears, and everyone can see who is assigned to what tasks, who submitted what changes and read updates about blockers in the project management tooling the instant those events happens. In other words, if you have plenty to talk about in your stand-ups then you are doing something wrong. Which is the point of Scrum, this fixes communication issues, but your team really shouldn't need this.
  - jseban 5y ago
    > The difference is that in a football game you don't have time to talk to each other during the game. In a software team you do have plenty of time and opportunities to talk as soon as a blocker or issue appears Yes. The other difference is that football has absolutely nothing to do with software development whatsoever, so why organise as a football team, that just seems like a bad joke to me.
  - Drew_ 5y ago
    > In a software team you do have plenty of time and opportunities to talk as soon as a blocker or issue appears If only this we're always true. In reality your teammates can be busy which means queries to them will often go unanswered. Standup is the only time to guarantee responses from busy people on the team.
- watwut 5y ago
  But we are not playing football, we are doing software. And it is much different occupation.
- Clubber 5y ago
  Ok, let's do our football daily standup, every play in the huddle: Tackle: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Tackle: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Guard: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Guard: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Center: I'm going to snap the ball then block. No blockers (err). Running back: I'm going to run. No blockers. Wide Receiver: I'm going to run then maybe catch the ball. No blockers. Wide Receiver: I'm going to run then maybe catch the ball. No blockers. Wide Receiver: I'm going to run then maybe catch the ball. No blockers. Quarterback: I'm got to receive the snap, then do something with the ball. No blockers. Tight End: I'm going to block. My blocker is that my shoe is untied. Guard: You should tie your shoe. Guard: You should tie your shoe. Running back: You should tie your shoe. Quarterback: Would you guys STFU, we've got stuff to do. Tackle: Daily standups are important for morale and communication. Referee: Delay of game, 5 yard penalty, repeat the down.
TeMPOraL 5y ago
Isn't this what all these funky agile ticket management systems are for? So that both the managers and ICs can look at the board and know, asynchronously, what's going on?
- thrower123 5y ago
  This would require people spend like... an hour... figuring out how the ticketing system works, and then checking it, or at least paying attention to the emails that it kicks out when somebody changes something on a ticket. So it's basically impossible.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    It would also require developers to close things when they're done, make regular comments on the tickets as milestones are met, filling in the correct keywords or components so that the ticket is included in the right board, etc. Just saying it's a two way street. Whenever someone says "This [meeting | standup] could have been an E-mail!" I respond "So do you read and respond to your E-mail?" I love asynchronous, but the entire team has to put in the effort to make it work.
    - thrower123 5y ago
      Conscientiousness is the most precious and rare resource on planet earth.
g051051 5y ago
> It’s for ICs to also communicate their needs, obstacles, concerns, or even just give everyone a heads up that a certain task is more difficult than expected. If the only time ICs communicate any of that stuff is at a set time each morning, then something is already seriously wrong.
- jseban 5y ago
  > If the only time ICs communicate any of that stuff is at a set time each morning, then something is already seriously wrong. Agreed, It's much more productive to simply approach some of your coworkers, or write in a team chat after the daily. Mentioning problems in the daily just adds pressure and stress with no benefit.
watwut 5y ago
> How much progress? Are they harder than expected? Easier? Any blockers? Anything that could help? We are talking about daily standups. In all likelyhood, you don't encounter blocker that often. If you have frequent blockers, then you have larger issue. In most days, I don't need help at daily standup time. If I needed help, I asked before and did not waited for standup. > Are they harder than expected? Easier? What would that be useful for? Like, I do quick venting sometimes, everybody does, but I am not under illusion it is useful for others.
criddell 5y ago
If "no update" is a common report, then maybe that should be accepted as a reasonable update. If that is a frequent update then an experiment should be done. Get rid of the standup for a quarter and see what changes - positive or negative - come about. Sometimes things progress without any surprises or blockers. A meeting just for the sake of having a meeting seems like a waste of time and effort.
randomdata 5y ago
> Which work orders? Which PRs? The ones we already discussed were in progress. Did you expect it to magically change overnight? > How much progress? Paterio already went over this with you. I am 80% done. Tomorrow I will be 80% though the remaining 20%. The next day I will be 80% done with the outstanding 20%. > Are they harder than expected? Yes. It would be far easier if you didn't interrupt me. > Any blockers? If there were, and I haven't already told you, why would I tell you now? > Anything that could help? Not bothering me until I am at a stopping point. -- What's the purpose of the standup again?

playpause 5y ago

What is an IC?

bosie 5y ago
Individual Contributor
chaosite 5y ago
Individual Contributor. A plain old developer, who does not manage other developers.

0des 5y ago

I'm always flabbergasted when someone asks what's the point. It would be a very different game if the captain on the field initiates the huddle and expects everyone to get jazzed about "ALRIGHT LETS THROW THE BALL SOME AND THEN WE WILL CATCH IT SOME AND THERE MAY BE RUNNING INVOLVED! LETS GO, ON THREE! ONE TWO THREE GO TEAM"

g051051 5y ago
The huddle is play selection, not design. It's also often dictated by the coach. TBH, I wonder what point a huddle serves in modern football anyway. Just how much control to the players on the field have, anyway?
- 0des 5y ago
  The design doc discusses design, the standup aligns the team by discussing the 'play' if you don't mind me elaborating on this analogy.
  - g051051 5y ago
    I lack sufficient football knowledge to carry the analogy much further. My understanding is that there's no real discussion...the play is called by the coach, the QB (I expect) relays the play to the team in the huddle, and they execute it per the playbook that they all study. To be comparable, the standup would be where you get your work assigned for the day.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  The huddle is about the QB disseminating the play they are about to run - he's the only one allowed to (in pro football) have a radio link to the coach. Not to vote on the play that is about to be run. My guess is feedback about people's physical condition and needing to be pulled from the game is the only feedback allowed (other than a question if they forgot something about the play, I guess?)
- ryathal 5y ago
  Modern football plays are far more dynamic than ever, if the defense shows man to man then do x, if they show zone do y, if they show blitz Z is the quick target, or if star receiver is mismatched then go deep.
Jensson 5y ago
The difference is that in a football game you don't have time to talk to each other during the game. In a software team you do have plenty of time and opportunities to talk as soon as a blocker or issue appears, and everyone can see who is assigned to what tasks, who submitted what changes and read updates about blockers in the project management tooling the instant those events happens. In other words, if you have plenty to talk about in your stand-ups then you are doing something wrong. Which is the point of Scrum, this fixes communication issues, but your team really shouldn't need this.
- jseban 5y ago
  > The difference is that in a football game you don't have time to talk to each other during the game. In a software team you do have plenty of time and opportunities to talk as soon as a blocker or issue appears Yes. The other difference is that football has absolutely nothing to do with software development whatsoever, so why organise as a football team, that just seems like a bad joke to me.
- Drew_ 5y ago
  > In a software team you do have plenty of time and opportunities to talk as soon as a blocker or issue appears If only this we're always true. In reality your teammates can be busy which means queries to them will often go unanswered. Standup is the only time to guarantee responses from busy people on the team.
watwut 5y ago
But we are not playing football, we are doing software. And it is much different occupation.
Clubber 5y ago
Ok, let's do our football daily standup, every play in the huddle: Tackle: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Tackle: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Guard: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Guard: I'm going to block. No blockers (err). Center: I'm going to snap the ball then block. No blockers (err). Running back: I'm going to run. No blockers. Wide Receiver: I'm going to run then maybe catch the ball. No blockers. Wide Receiver: I'm going to run then maybe catch the ball. No blockers. Wide Receiver: I'm going to run then maybe catch the ball. No blockers. Quarterback: I'm got to receive the snap, then do something with the ball. No blockers. Tight End: I'm going to block. My blocker is that my shoe is untied. Guard: You should tie your shoe. Guard: You should tie your shoe. Running back: You should tie your shoe. Quarterback: Would you guys STFU, we've got stuff to do. Tackle: Daily standups are important for morale and communication. Referee: Delay of game, 5 yard penalty, repeat the down.

TeMPOraL 5y ago

Isn't this what all these funky agile ticket management systems are for? So that both the managers and ICs can look at the board and know, asynchronously, what's going on?

thrower123 5y ago
This would require people spend like... an hour... figuring out how the ticketing system works, and then checking it, or at least paying attention to the emails that it kicks out when somebody changes something on a ticket. So it's basically impossible.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  It would also require developers to close things when they're done, make regular comments on the tickets as milestones are met, filling in the correct keywords or components so that the ticket is included in the right board, etc. Just saying it's a two way street. Whenever someone says "This [meeting | standup] could have been an E-mail!" I respond "So do you read and respond to your E-mail?" I love asynchronous, but the entire team has to put in the effort to make it work.
  - thrower123 5y ago
    Conscientiousness is the most precious and rare resource on planet earth.

g051051 5y ago

> It’s for ICs to also communicate their needs, obstacles, concerns, or even just give everyone a heads up that a certain task is more difficult than expected. If the only time ICs communicate any of that stuff is at a set time each morning, then something is already seriously wrong.

jseban 5y ago
> If the only time ICs communicate any of that stuff is at a set time each morning, then something is already seriously wrong. Agreed, It's much more productive to simply approach some of your coworkers, or write in a team chat after the daily. Mentioning problems in the daily just adds pressure and stress with no benefit.

watwut 5y ago

> How much progress? Are they harder than expected? Easier? Any blockers? Anything that could help? We are talking about daily standups. In all likelyhood, you don't encounter blocker that often. If you have frequent blockers, then you have larger issue. In most days, I don't need help at daily standup time. If I needed help, I asked before and did not waited for standup. > Are they harder than expected? Easier? What would that be useful for? Like, I do quick venting sometimes, everybody does, but I am not under illusion it is useful for others.

criddell 5y ago

If "no update" is a common report, then maybe that should be accepted as a reasonable update. If that is a frequent update then an experiment should be done. Get rid of the standup for a quarter and see what changes - positive or negative - come about. Sometimes things progress without any surprises or blockers. A meeting just for the sake of having a meeting seems like a waste of time and effort.

randomdata 5y ago

> Which work orders? Which PRs? The ones we already discussed were in progress. Did you expect it to magically change overnight? > How much progress? Paterio already went over this with you. I am 80% done. Tomorrow I will be 80% though the remaining 20%. The next day I will be 80% done with the outstanding 20%. > Are they harder than expected? Yes. It would be far easier if you didn't interrupt me. > Any blockers? If there were, and I haven't already told you, why would I tell you now? > Anything that could help? Not bothering me until I am at a stopping point. -- What's the purpose of the standup again?