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Yes, and rather than admit this plainly observable fact, incorporate this new information, then base policy choices on what we now know, we still have "health o

Yes, and rather than admit this plainly observable fact, incorporate this new information, then base policy choices on what we now know, we still have "health officials" and politicians from one side of the aisle sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and shouting "Nah nah nah I can't hear you!" as they push illogical (and arguably wildly immoral) policies like vaccine mandates and perpetual masking and an overall unending bizarro world. I don't know how else to describe COVID anymore other than it's become the world's largest secular religion.

pjc50 5y ago
What do you propose? Let everyone get the virus, repeatedly? What's your target fatality rate?
cml 5y ago
This is how the lead author of the study we are discussing interprets the new information: “Our paper, which had a global impact within 24 hours of publication, provides important support for the following crucial public health actions: vaccinate the unvaccinated ASAP; give boosters to all those who are eligible ASAP; maintain social and public health measures despite vaccination.” (This is the fifth paragraph the linked article).
chipgap98 5y ago
Even if the vaccines don't entirely curb transmission, they reduce it and reduce the risk of severe illness. While for an individual this might impact their decision making framework, I don't see how it should change the framework for public health officials. > politicians from one side of the aisle sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and shouting "Nah nah nah I can't hear you!" Politicians on the other side of the aisle are attempting to ban any COVID prevention measures at all. I agree that vaccine mandates aren't the only tool available to us, but it's hard to argue with the mandates when there are people fighting against mandatory testing, mask wearing, and social distancing.
- bedhead 5y ago
  Oh vaccines reduce it by some vague amount, if at all, to vaccinated people whom you admit are at far less risk having been vaccinated? Oh well then go nuts, put in whatever draconian rules you want if it may or may not reduce some spread by some minor amount and means that someone gets COVID in 2023 instead of 2022. That's all the justification we need! Quarantine the kids. Fire police. Make everyone hate each other. Sounds totally worth it!! Yay!! This is the cult of safetyism. A total inability to process risk/reward and tradeoffs, and eschewing basic logic for "protection" whether real or imagined no matter the cost. All I sincerely ask to people such as yourself is, "What is your long-term plan? Is this forever for you?" Usually, I watch as their brains simply break down on the side of the highway. They have no answer because their logic is so bad they get stuck in an eddy with no way to get out. Welcome to the Church of COVID. And no, conservatives aren't banning prevention measures. Everyone alive is free to get vaccinated (and wear a mask) as most have even in places like Florida. They're banning punitive rules, and whether it's Florida or Texas or all of Scandinavia, they've demonstrated that there are no worse outcomes from simply allowing people to make their own health choices without figuratively putting a gun to their heads (mandates) or making them do anything they don't want to (masks). Meanwhile, half the world upon seeing this: "Nah nah nah I can't hear you!"
  - sjg007 5y ago
    >Fire police. Really?
    - bedhead 5y ago
      Most crime-ridden city in America is vehemently trying to put in a policy which would cause potentially almost a third of their police fired. Again, cult of safetyism run amok. This is what fatally flawed logic gets you. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-fop-john-catanzara-mayor-lori-lightfoot/11139232/ https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-fop-john-catanzara-ma...
      - notahacker 5y ago
mackal 5y ago
Incorporating this new information would lead to policies that support vaccine mandates and masking. But then again, that's always been what I thought the policies should be since there was never any strong claims to vaccines preventing transmission.
- bedhead 5y ago
  How is one supposed to debate with someone who thinks the sun rises in the west? If you can't even process the basic facts about vaccines - they don't reduce spread but reduce risk of complication - that logically make mandates and masks useless (which is now also being proven in real-world data), I mean, there's no point in discussion. You can say the sky is red as many times as you want, that doesn't make it true. Besides the fact that by your logic this is a new ridiculous equilibrium for life, with PERPETUAL quarantines, testing, masks, employer enforcement of personal medical choices, passports to do anything, and more broadly everyone hating each other's guts. Sounds fun!!! Totally worth it!!! Places like Sweden and Florida don't count!!!
  - notahacker 5y ago
    You're replying to a thread devoted to discuss evidence the efficacy with which vaccines reduce spread, in which they note that the transmission rate is much lower in doubly vaccinated households than unvaccinated household, and also comment that they were a little surprised and disappointed that the vaccine was not more efficient in reducing transmission, as other vaccines often are. I don't think you're in a position to lecture people about inability to process basic facts if your partisan screed depends on ignoring this to insist that "they don't reduce spread" is an established fact about vaccines. How is one supposed to debate with someone who insists the sun rises in the west, indeed?
  - mackal 5y ago
    The only person with a reality perception issue is you. Your posts are extremely ironic.

pjc50 5y ago

What do you propose? Let everyone get the virus, repeatedly? What's your target fatality rate?

cml 5y ago

This is how the lead author of the study we are discussing interprets the new information: “Our paper, which had a global impact within 24 hours of publication, provides important support for the following crucial public health actions: vaccinate the unvaccinated ASAP; give boosters to all those who are eligible ASAP; maintain social and public health measures despite vaccination.” (This is the fifth paragraph the linked article).

chipgap98 5y ago

Even if the vaccines don't entirely curb transmission, they reduce it and reduce the risk of severe illness. While for an individual this might impact their decision making framework, I don't see how it should change the framework for public health officials. > politicians from one side of the aisle sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and shouting "Nah nah nah I can't hear you!" Politicians on the other side of the aisle are attempting to ban any COVID prevention measures at all. I agree that vaccine mandates aren't the only tool available to us, but it's hard to argue with the mandates when there are people fighting against mandatory testing, mask wearing, and social distancing.

bedhead 5y ago
Oh vaccines reduce it by some vague amount, if at all, to vaccinated people whom you admit are at far less risk having been vaccinated? Oh well then go nuts, put in whatever draconian rules you want if it may or may not reduce some spread by some minor amount and means that someone gets COVID in 2023 instead of 2022. That's all the justification we need! Quarantine the kids. Fire police. Make everyone hate each other. Sounds totally worth it!! Yay!! This is the cult of safetyism. A total inability to process risk/reward and tradeoffs, and eschewing basic logic for "protection" whether real or imagined no matter the cost. All I sincerely ask to people such as yourself is, "What is your long-term plan? Is this forever for you?" Usually, I watch as their brains simply break down on the side of the highway. They have no answer because their logic is so bad they get stuck in an eddy with no way to get out. Welcome to the Church of COVID. And no, conservatives aren't banning prevention measures. Everyone alive is free to get vaccinated (and wear a mask) as most have even in places like Florida. They're banning punitive rules, and whether it's Florida or Texas or all of Scandinavia, they've demonstrated that there are no worse outcomes from simply allowing people to make their own health choices without figuratively putting a gun to their heads (mandates) or making them do anything they don't want to (masks). Meanwhile, half the world upon seeing this: "Nah nah nah I can't hear you!"
- sjg007 5y ago
  >Fire police. Really?
  - bedhead 5y ago
    Most crime-ridden city in America is vehemently trying to put in a policy which would cause potentially almost a third of their police fired. Again, cult of safetyism run amok. This is what fatally flawed logic gets you. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-fop-john-catanzara-mayor-lori-lightfoot/11139232/ https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-police-fop-john-catanzara-ma...
    - notahacker 5y ago

mackal 5y ago

Incorporating this new information would lead to policies that support vaccine mandates and masking. But then again, that's always been what I thought the policies should be since there was never any strong claims to vaccines preventing transmission.

bedhead 5y ago
How is one supposed to debate with someone who thinks the sun rises in the west? If you can't even process the basic facts about vaccines - they don't reduce spread but reduce risk of complication - that logically make mandates and masks useless (which is now also being proven in real-world data), I mean, there's no point in discussion. You can say the sky is red as many times as you want, that doesn't make it true. Besides the fact that by your logic this is a new ridiculous equilibrium for life, with PERPETUAL quarantines, testing, masks, employer enforcement of personal medical choices, passports to do anything, and more broadly everyone hating each other's guts. Sounds fun!!! Totally worth it!!! Places like Sweden and Florida don't count!!!
- notahacker 5y ago
  You're replying to a thread devoted to discuss evidence the efficacy with which vaccines reduce spread, in which they note that the transmission rate is much lower in doubly vaccinated households than unvaccinated household, and also comment that they were a little surprised and disappointed that the vaccine was not more efficient in reducing transmission, as other vaccines often are. I don't think you're in a position to lecture people about inability to process basic facts if your partisan screed depends on ignoring this to insist that "they don't reduce spread" is an established fact about vaccines. How is one supposed to debate with someone who insists the sun rises in the west, indeed?
- mackal 5y ago
  The only person with a reality perception issue is you. Your posts are extremely ironic.