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For the CDC report you can read their article https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6923e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6923e1.htm "The num

For the CDC report you can read their article https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6923e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6923e1.htm "The number of visits for conditions including nonspecific chest pain and acute myocardial infarction decreased, suggesting that some persons could be delaying care for conditions that might result in additional mortality if left untreated. " Or better yet, just glance their infographic: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/social-media/mm6923e1_EDVisitDeclinesCOVID19_IMAGE_03June20_1200x675-medium.jpg https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/social-media/mm6923e1... If you read between the lines, you know they have a serious problem here with people avoiding care. Billionaires net worth increased 70% [trillions] during pandemic: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/28/politics/billionaire-wealth-tax/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/28/politics/billionaire-wealth-t... And I will say this: personally I've done quite well financially during the pandemic, through tech wages and investments. And part of me thinks, well the shift we are doing as a society is necessary as we step into the future. But part of me also feels bad for the people who have to lose and die to make this shift happen. We have so much momentum towards where our society feels it is destined to be, and covid just feels like an excuse to be another step in that direction. Maybe I should just shut my mouth and let it happen, but Im an idiot so there you have it.

WalterGR 5y ago
Thanks for the info on what you meant by money changing hands. "The number of visits for conditions including nonspecific chest pain and acute myocardial infarction decreased, suggesting that some persons could be delaying care for conditions that might result in additional mortality if left untreated." Yep. Nobody is claiming that number is zero. The CDC report also notes "NSSP found that emergency department (ED) visits declined 42% during the early COVID-19 pandemic... with the steepest decreases in persons aged ≤14 years, females, and the Northeast." People aged ≤14 years just don't account for a large percentage of ER deaths. Or better yet, just glance their infographic: That infographic is confusing. While it says "A decline in visits for serious conditions might result in complications or death" that is not a statement about the 42% number. ER visits declined that much overall. (My guess based on the "might result in complications or death" phrasing is that it's supposed to be a warning for the general public to not skip the ER for serious conditions.) Re. myocardial infarction, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234 reports an increase of approximately 30,000 deaths in the US in 2020 due to heart disease. Skimming https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/13/how-we-estimated-the-true-death-toll-of-the-pandemic https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/13/how-we-e... I don't see if they take into account known numbers such as that one. It does note "Many people with treatable medical conditions have died because they did not receive appropriate health care. Conversely, other people have survived who, were it not for the behavioural changes induced by covid-19, would have died from causes like influenza, air pollution or car accidents." What statistics would give you more confidence in excess death counts?
- gravyjones 5y ago
  Well heres another one. massive increase in drug overdoses during pandemic: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drug-overdose-deaths-2020-coronavirus-pandemic/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drug-overdose-deaths-2020-coron...

WalterGR 5y ago

Thanks for the info on what you meant by money changing hands. "The number of visits for conditions including nonspecific chest pain and acute myocardial infarction decreased, suggesting that some persons could be delaying care for conditions that might result in additional mortality if left untreated." Yep. Nobody is claiming that number is zero. The CDC report also notes "NSSP found that emergency department (ED) visits declined 42% during the early COVID-19 pandemic... with the steepest decreases in persons aged ≤14 years, females, and the Northeast." People aged ≤14 years just don't account for a large percentage of ER deaths. Or better yet, just glance their infographic: That infographic is confusing. While it says "A decline in visits for serious conditions might result in complications or death" that is not a statement about the 42% number. ER visits declined that much overall. (My guess based on the "might result in complications or death" phrasing is that it's supposed to be a warning for the general public to not skip the ER for serious conditions.) Re. myocardial infarction, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2778234 reports an increase of approximately 30,000 deaths in the US in 2020 due to heart disease. Skimming https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/13/how-we-estimated-the-true-death-toll-of-the-pandemic https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/05/13/how-we-e... I don't see if they take into account known numbers such as that one. It does note "Many people with treatable medical conditions have died because they did not receive appropriate health care. Conversely, other people have survived who, were it not for the behavioural changes induced by covid-19, would have died from causes like influenza, air pollution or car accidents." What statistics would give you more confidence in excess death counts?

gravyjones 5y ago
Well heres another one. massive increase in drug overdoses during pandemic: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drug-overdose-deaths-2020-coronavirus-pandemic/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/drug-overdose-deaths-2020-coron...