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I really don't see why a bunch of unpaid volunteers should bother to support the only player in town that refuses to play nicely and tries to strong-arm everybo

I really don't see why a bunch of unpaid volunteers should bother to support the only player in town that refuses to play nicely and tries to strong-arm everybody else to use its technically inferior solution. Here's a nice write-up. I can imagine how nice it is to spend all your waking time trying to improve the Linux graphics stack and then listen to all the bullshit that we see in this discussion. https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/02/Anti-Wayland-horseshit.html https://drewdevault.com/2021/02/02/Anti-Wayland-horseshit.ht... That said, from what I heard, before nvidia backed down, GNOME and KDE developers started adding support for it in their Wayland compositors.

Zababa 5y ago
> I can imagine how nice it is to spend all your waking time trying to improve the Linux graphics stack and then listen to all the bullshit that we see in this discussion. Is this really surprising? End users want their stuff to keep working with minimal changes. End users don't know and/or don't care that X is hard to maintain. They seen wayland coming, and they're scared that some of their stuff that they currently use will break. How exactly do you expect people to react to: > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. Regardless, I simply don’t give a shit about you anymore.
ddingus 5y ago
The effort to improve is welcome and appreciated. Casting multi-use graphical computing aside is unwelcome. Most of the toxicity centers on HOW that discussion has played out. To be fair, many users coming up on single user graphical computing have no idea what the problem is, do not have use cases and we all know the rest. The users who do understand all that are pissed. They are being told none of it really matters or is necessary, and so on... Of course all that is definitely not appreciated however spiffy watching videos about it all may be. And, those users totally get the need to see the embedded use case improvements get done, and still are being asked to just forget multi user graphical computing was ever a thing because reasons... So yeah, here we are. People will care about Weyland exactly as much as the Weyland team cares about them. Multi user graphical computing aware users are not cared about at all despite their repeated explanations on how they depend on that capability. Depend, as in, not having it becomes very expensive for them. Expensive enough to wash away all the value they are being told matters more to everyone else. Non multi user graphical computing aware people basically just want it settled so they can have few overall worries. They feel some care aimed their way. The embedded people are super happy and are cared about a lot. All adds up to a very toxic state of affairs. Factoring it all down: Did we absolutely have to trade multi user graphical computing away? Should the answer be no, this whole ugly mess will go away. Continuing with a yes means a very painful and drawn out mess for years to come. And it will be that way because there are plenty of people who really do get a lot of value out of multi user graphical computing. Who knew? I bet the former X devs did. And they just do not care. Why exactly should they get any back in return?

Zababa 5y ago

> I can imagine how nice it is to spend all your waking time trying to improve the Linux graphics stack and then listen to all the bullshit that we see in this discussion. Is this really surprising? End users want their stuff to keep working with minimal changes. End users don't know and/or don't care that X is hard to maintain. They seen wayland coming, and they're scared that some of their stuff that they currently use will break. How exactly do you expect people to react to: > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. Regardless, I simply don’t give a shit about you anymore.

ddingus 5y ago

The effort to improve is welcome and appreciated. Casting multi-use graphical computing aside is unwelcome. Most of the toxicity centers on HOW that discussion has played out. To be fair, many users coming up on single user graphical computing have no idea what the problem is, do not have use cases and we all know the rest. The users who do understand all that are pissed. They are being told none of it really matters or is necessary, and so on... Of course all that is definitely not appreciated however spiffy watching videos about it all may be. And, those users totally get the need to see the embedded use case improvements get done, and still are being asked to just forget multi user graphical computing was ever a thing because reasons... So yeah, here we are. People will care about Weyland exactly as much as the Weyland team cares about them. Multi user graphical computing aware users are not cared about at all despite their repeated explanations on how they depend on that capability. Depend, as in, not having it becomes very expensive for them. Expensive enough to wash away all the value they are being told matters more to everyone else. Non multi user graphical computing aware people basically just want it settled so they can have few overall worries. They feel some care aimed their way. The embedded people are super happy and are cared about a lot. All adds up to a very toxic state of affairs. Factoring it all down: Did we absolutely have to trade multi user graphical computing away? Should the answer be no, this whole ugly mess will go away. Continuing with a yes means a very painful and drawn out mess for years to come. And it will be that way because there are plenty of people who really do get a lot of value out of multi user graphical computing. Who knew? I bet the former X devs did. And they just do not care. Why exactly should they get any back in return?