6 ms·
"This is water, this is water."
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- ldd- 15y agoI've read this piece tons of times and whenever it finds me (as now), I never pass up an opportunity to read it again. I can't tell you how many people I've sent this to, or shared the sentiment with, over the years.
- jdietrich 15y agoProtip: Don't take advice on how to live your life from a man who killed himself aged 46.
- edash 15y agoDFW's depression was clinical and a lifelong battle. Your statement is akin to saying "Don't take advice from a man who died of cancer at 46."
- pekinb 15y agoReally? There are valuable lessons in this speech. How does DFW's suicide affect his messages?
- jacksonkernion 15y agoThat's not fair. Judge the speech on its content. The man died because his meds stopped working.
- garret 15y agoAd hominem.
- tptacek 15y agoThis is the dumbest thing I've read on HN in a long time. It's dumb on so many levels (the nature of thought, the actual meaning and intent of the essay, how depression works, and the circumstances of Wallace's death) that it actually functions as a kind of marvel of dumbness. If it wasn't concurrently and needlessly mean, I'd thank you for writing it. Instead, I'm just going to remember how dumb you appeared to be.
- Cushman 15y agoI hate to defend the douchebag, but I'm afraid there is a germ of truth there. DFW is perfect towards the end, when he talks about acceptance and awareness— the thesis ("This is water") is spot on. But the way he approaches it, as a question of choosing what to think, is fundamentally, tragically wrong. To Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy folks call that focusing on cognition rather than experience. It's the classic fallacy of beginning meditators, who believe the secret lies in choosing what to think, or in fact choosing not to think at all. It makes rational sense as a way to approach suffering; "Thinking this way is causing me to suffer. I must change my thinking so that the suffering stops." In fact, the fundamental tenet of mindfulness is that this is impossible. Not even the most enlightened guru on this planet can not think of an elephant. You cannot choose what to think, cannot choose what to feel, cannot choose not to suffer. Actually, that is not completely true. You can, through training over a period of time, teach yourself to feel nothing at all. We have a special word to describe these people: depressed. The "trick" to both Buddhist mindfulness and MBCT, and the cure for depression if such a thing exists, lies in accepting that we are as powerless over our thoughts and emotions as we are over our circumstances. My mind, the "master" DFW talks about, is part of the water. If I am angry that an SUV cut me off, I must experience anger. If I'm disgusted by the fat woman in front of me in the supermarket, I must experience disgust. When I am joyful, I must experience joy, and when I suffer, I must experience suffering. There is no other option but death or madness— the quiet madness that pervades most peoples' lives as they suffer day in and day out in their frantic quest to avoid suffering. Experience. Awareness. Acceptance. Never thought— you can't be mindful by thinking about mindfulness, it's an oxymoron. You have to just feel it. There's something indescribably heartbreaking in hearing him come so close to finding the cure, to miss it only by a hair, knowing what happens next. [Full disclosure: My mother is a psychiatrist who dabbles in MBCT. It cured her depression, and mine.]
- edash 15y agoI highly recommend the audio version of This is Water. You get to hear his intonation and his interaction with the crowd...I found it much more moving than the transcription.
- lobo_tuerto 15y agohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5THXa_H_N8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5THXa_H_N8
- Groxx 15y agoplus: http://www.youtube-mp3.org http://www.youtube-mp3.org (just found this)
- lubutu 15y agoThank you for posting this. I'd not heard of David Foster Wallace, but having read this and watched an interview, I've ordered a copy of Infinite Jest. Sounds like he was a brilliant man. Thanks.
- jacksonkernion 15y agoI'm a huge DFW fan. If I may make one recommendtion, do not start with Infinite Jest. It's a wonderful book, but it's not exactly a breezy read. It's totally doable, and it's not obscure, like, say, Joyce's Ulysses. But it is a long slog. Instead, I recommend reading some if his short pieces first. It'll allow you to better appreciate Infinite Jest, and the short pieces are a little more immediately gratifying. My personal favorites are 'Good Old Neon' from gis short story collection, Oblivion, and 'A Supposedely Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again' from an essay collection of the same name.
- jacksonkernion 15y agoAlso, check out this great interview with Charlie Rose: http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/5639 http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/5639
- tptacek 15y agoOr, don't be afraid of IJ, but set your expectations properly; as a coherent narrative, it's only going to start coming together in the final third of the book. Until then, read it as a series of intimate essays written from a parallel dimension. Don't skip the footnotes. They aren't intended to be optional.
- idlewords 15y agoAlso note that the many factual errors in the footnotes appear to be honest mistakes by the author rather than an effort to signpost an unreliable narrator. I really tied my mind in pretzels before figuring that out.
- euroclydon 15y ago
- DanielBMarkham 15y agoThis is the best essay I've read all week. Thank you so much for sharing it. His point about the great truths in life sounding like banal platitudes was dead on. It's the type of thing that's easy to say, but hard to convey. He did a great job of it. For instance, his point about seeming to be the center of the universe reminded me of Johnny Cash's great re-make song "Hurt" where he says "You are still out there. I am still right here." Totally banal and simplistic, but also very true and difficult to grasp. [video link] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go
- mathattack 15y agoI wish I had something profound to say other than, "Thanks for posting."