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Tesla's opposition to Right to Repair has chilled the brand to many frugal car buyers who drive their daily beater 20+ years and 300,000+ miles. Being able to b

Tesla's opposition to Right to Repair has chilled the brand to many frugal car buyers who drive their daily beater 20+ years and 300,000+ miles. Being able to buy an affordable electric crate motor will open up the world of electric to those who like to keep their technology for the long haul.

dTal 5y ago
It seems to be a trend in electric vehicles. I just bought an electric scooter which came with literature warning that my warranty would be voided if I so much as undid a single bolt. It's rather jarring, coming from the world of cycling, where stripping your vehicle down to atoms and reassembling it is considered normal maintenance. Incidentally, the same literature claimed my warranty would also be voided if I failed to maintain the scooter properly. I'm not sure where to go from there...
- bserge 5y ago
  I have always opened up shit with the understanding that my warranty is then gone. Imo, it's a minor issue compared to them making the thing unopenable, using clips/safety bolts that break, siliconing all the electronics, etc.
- dd36 5y ago
  Pretty sure voiding warranty for opening isn’t legal.
  - dTal 5y ago
    If only that were globally true.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  You're free to ignore such warnings. And in many cases the warnings are there because the law comes down hard on manufacturers that enable bypassing the (mandatory) governor systems which limit the speed (and sometimes the torque) at which the vehicles can operate.
  - dTal 5y ago
    Sure, I'm free to void the warranty and no one will arrest me. Seems unfair though.
    - AshleyGrant 5y ago
      You're free to ignore those warning stickers because the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that you opening the device caused the issue. Warranty stickers are a scare tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...
      - dTal 5y ago
        Only ~5% of the world's population is subject to that law. The company I bought the scooter from is in the remaining 95%.
        HWR_14 5y ago
        It matters less where the company is than where you are. I mean, sure, a company in China can refuse to honor the warranty, but they risk losing the ability to sell their goods in the US.
        dTal 5y ago
        Again, I never mentioned the US. The amount of casual US-centrism in a thread where people are handing out legal advice is astounding. To everyone: please don't tell someone on the internet that $FOO is legal without checking where they live. You might get someone hurt.
        HWR_14 5y ago
        It's not US-centrism in general. You said only 5% of the population is subject to the law, which made that point. If you're like "we in the EU don't do that", fine. However, you then said that the issue was the company that made your scooter was outside the US. That implies you are in the US. Look, if I offer you a peanut-butter and raspberry jelly sandwich, and you say "I cannot eat that, I'm allergic", fine. If you say "Well, my doctor said I'm allergic to all tree nuts", I would point out peanut butter isn't a tree nut and you can still eat it. If you come back complaining about how "people aren't sensitive to raspberry allergies", I'm going to claim that was bad communication on your part.
- kfarr 5y ago
  Electric bikes are refreshingly serviceable, I've learned a lot about bike maintenance and repair by using a Tern GSD as our "daily driver"
  - CountDrewku 5y ago
    That's because it's a normal bike other than the motor itself.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Just make sure you don't short out those batteries.
  - giobox 5y ago
    As someone who own's a Tern GSD and a Tern Vektron too, I've found the unserviceable Bosch electric drivetrain to not be refreshingly serviceable at all. This may have changed in year since I last had to look and might vary by region, but in US Bosch have been incredibly strict about parts and software tools for the motors - only approved dealers can order a brand new replacement motor, for example. You cannot order one as private individual easily (much like a Tesla...). That's unheard of for bike parts generally speaking. For sure, all of the parts that are shared with traditional non e-bikes (group sets, brakes, wheels, etc etc) are still easily privately serviceable by end user. The Bosch electric drivetrain, not so much.
    - kfarr 5y ago
      Good points all around, I have luckily not had to deal with the electric drivetrain
  - Steltek 5y ago
    Mmmm, how much of the electric side is actually serviceable? I think you're confusing e-bikes with regular bikes. The electric side is probably entirely off limits to people and what you're experiencing is the vestigial aspects of the regular bike underneath.
    - 5y ago
ctdonath 5y ago
Solved by Tesla building EVs to million-mile specs. Between lasting 3-4x longer with few repairs, and gas savings over long usage, TCO is far less than ICE. Running numbers, I'm seeing a "Tri+FSD" Cybertruck paying for itself at 410,000 miles just in gas savings, then amounting to a free second vehicle over the next >400,000 miles. That should make the frugal overcome "right to repair" issues.

dTal 5y ago

It seems to be a trend in electric vehicles. I just bought an electric scooter which came with literature warning that my warranty would be voided if I so much as undid a single bolt. It's rather jarring, coming from the world of cycling, where stripping your vehicle down to atoms and reassembling it is considered normal maintenance. Incidentally, the same literature claimed my warranty would also be voided if I failed to maintain the scooter properly. I'm not sure where to go from there...

bserge 5y ago
I have always opened up shit with the understanding that my warranty is then gone. Imo, it's a minor issue compared to them making the thing unopenable, using clips/safety bolts that break, siliconing all the electronics, etc.
dd36 5y ago
Pretty sure voiding warranty for opening isn’t legal.
- dTal 5y ago
  If only that were globally true.
jacquesm 5y ago
You're free to ignore such warnings. And in many cases the warnings are there because the law comes down hard on manufacturers that enable bypassing the (mandatory) governor systems which limit the speed (and sometimes the torque) at which the vehicles can operate.
- dTal 5y ago
  Sure, I'm free to void the warranty and no one will arrest me. Seems unfair though.
  - AshleyGrant 5y ago
    You're free to ignore those warning stickers because the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that you opening the device caused the issue. Warranty stickers are a scare tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty...
    - dTal 5y ago
      Only ~5% of the world's population is subject to that law. The company I bought the scooter from is in the remaining 95%.
      - HWR_14 5y ago
        It matters less where the company is than where you are. I mean, sure, a company in China can refuse to honor the warranty, but they risk losing the ability to sell their goods in the US.
        dTal 5y ago
        Again, I never mentioned the US. The amount of casual US-centrism in a thread where people are handing out legal advice is astounding. To everyone: please don't tell someone on the internet that $FOO is legal without checking where they live. You might get someone hurt.
        HWR_14 5y ago
        It's not US-centrism in general. You said only 5% of the population is subject to the law, which made that point. If you're like "we in the EU don't do that", fine. However, you then said that the issue was the company that made your scooter was outside the US. That implies you are in the US. Look, if I offer you a peanut-butter and raspberry jelly sandwich, and you say "I cannot eat that, I'm allergic", fine. If you say "Well, my doctor said I'm allergic to all tree nuts", I would point out peanut butter isn't a tree nut and you can still eat it. If you come back complaining about how "people aren't sensitive to raspberry allergies", I'm going to claim that was bad communication on your part.
kfarr 5y ago
Electric bikes are refreshingly serviceable, I've learned a lot about bike maintenance and repair by using a Tern GSD as our "daily driver"
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  That's because it's a normal bike other than the motor itself.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Just make sure you don't short out those batteries.
- giobox 5y ago
  As someone who own's a Tern GSD and a Tern Vektron too, I've found the unserviceable Bosch electric drivetrain to not be refreshingly serviceable at all. This may have changed in year since I last had to look and might vary by region, but in US Bosch have been incredibly strict about parts and software tools for the motors - only approved dealers can order a brand new replacement motor, for example. You cannot order one as private individual easily (much like a Tesla...). That's unheard of for bike parts generally speaking. For sure, all of the parts that are shared with traditional non e-bikes (group sets, brakes, wheels, etc etc) are still easily privately serviceable by end user. The Bosch electric drivetrain, not so much.
  - kfarr 5y ago
    Good points all around, I have luckily not had to deal with the electric drivetrain
- Steltek 5y ago
  Mmmm, how much of the electric side is actually serviceable? I think you're confusing e-bikes with regular bikes. The electric side is probably entirely off limits to people and what you're experiencing is the vestigial aspects of the regular bike underneath.
  - 5y ago

ctdonath 5y ago

Solved by Tesla building EVs to million-mile specs. Between lasting 3-4x longer with few repairs, and gas savings over long usage, TCO is far less than ICE. Running numbers, I'm seeing a "Tri+FSD" Cybertruck paying for itself at 410,000 miles just in gas savings, then amounting to a free second vehicle over the next >400,000 miles. That should make the frugal overcome "right to repair" issues.