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Im going to guess you didnt read the link I posted where CDC said emergency room visits dropped by 42% , or that they poll was done where 1-4 people said they w

Im going to guess you didnt read the link I posted where CDC said emergency room visits dropped by 42% , or that they poll was done where 1-4 people said they wouldnt visit hospital if they were having a heart attack or stroke because they were afraid of covid. I realize you are invested in your position, but you asked for information and I provided it and you should look into it. Or just downvote me, but at least im being earnest.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> people said they wouldnt visit hospital if they were having a heart attack or stroke because they were afraid of covid People avoiding hospitals because of COVID is an effect of COVID.
- native_samples 5y ago
  Specifically, it's an effect of mistaken predictions about COVID. COVID is still with us and people have stopped avoiding the hospitals now, unfortunately, the backlog isn't clearable except by people dying whilst waiting for treatment (in the UK at least).
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Specifically, it's an effect of mistaken predictions about COVID No, its not. It’s an effect of the perception that hospitals provide an elevated risk of catching COVID plus some desire to avoid hospitalization given the COVID control measures in hospitals. (There's also some effect that isn't avoidance but some services actually cancelled at hospitals due to actual or anticipated COVID caseload or as part of control measures.) > COVID is still with us True. > and people have stopped avoiding the hospitals No, they haven't, though that's dropped from the peak and widespread use and awareness of telehealth services (which stabilized at a nearly 40× the pre-pandemic utilization rate) may mean that less of that avoidance of hospitals and other medical facilities is avoidance of medical services entirely.
- gravyjones 5y ago
  Yes you are probably right. It's because of covid or the perception and response to covid. I'll be very brutally honest here though. This covid stuff, I see a lot of people dying and a lot of money changing hands and a lot of... unclear things happening very fast all around us. It rather bothers me. Whenever this USA nation has a crisis the opportunists seem to rise out of nowhere to exploit it, and the common man suffers.
  - pbak 5y ago
    My elderly mother proposed in April 2020 that this crisis would end when everything not bolted firmly to the floor would finish being stolen. I laughed with her then. I don't anymore.
    - gravyjones 5y ago
      Haha the older I get, the more I appreciate old people. Especially the snarky ones. We are all going to be old someday, I hope I'm the best type of old like your mother. I really do.
      - pbak 5y ago
        I'll convey the compliment, kind internet stranger.
WalterGR 5y ago
Im going to guess you didnt read the link I posted where CDC said emergency room visits dropped by 42% Healthcare in the US is broken. Many people go to the ER for non-emergency reasons because ERs can't turn people away when they lack insurance. People also go to the ER for non-technically-emergency reasons because it's often the only way to get medical assistance outside of office hours (frequently 8am - 5pm, Monday through Friday.) So ER visits dropped 42%... what does that mean exactly? For example: people having heart attacks deciding to die at home vs. people who hurt themselves over a weekend deciding to skip the ER and wait to go to their doctor's office on Monday? they poll was done where 1-4 people said they wouldnt visit hospital if they were having a heart attack or stroke because they were afraid of covid What has the mortality rate from heart attacks and stroke been since early 2020?
- gravyjones 5y ago
  Honestly since all my posts have been downvoted thats not really an incentive for me to continue further even though I could. I provided links to latimes, CDC data, and I get downvoted. Maybe Im wrong or maybe this topic is to contentious, but honestly is it even worth talking about anymore? Things are how they are any neither you or I will change it.
  - WalterGR 5y ago
    It's never pleasant to have one's comments downvoted. But I think the issue is that the CDC data about ER visits and the LA Times story just don't say anything about how non-COVID deaths, but deaths 'due to' the COVID pandemic, have affected the excess mortality. Nobody (at least nobody worth listening to) is saying that zero people died because they didn't go to the ER, because they missed preventative care appointments, or because of misdiagnosis. But that's simply not the cause of the majority of the excess deaths. What numbers would you want to see on that? I suspect they're available... From another of your comments on this post: This covid stuff, I see a lot of people dying and a lot of money changing hands and a lot of... unclear things happening very fast all around us. By money changing hands do you mean the claim that hospitals exaggerate their COVID numbers because they get more money somehow? This is disproven, and many fact-checks have been published about it. Here's one from a FOX affiliate: https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-do-hospitals-get-money-for-covid-19-deaths https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-... things happening very fast all around us. That's very true. Being in the middle of a brand-new pandemic is disorienting. As time goes on, we'll have more hard data to guide policy decisions. Let's hope that politicians use it.
boloust 5y ago
Again, a comparison to Oceania would be helpful here. ER presentations declined by a similar proportion there, but did not see the excess deaths. Oceania largely managed to contain the virus until broad vaccination coverage was achieved in vulnerable populations. That would seem to be the most straightforward explanation for the lack of excess deaths in Oceania.
- gravyjones 5y ago
  Ok but when you are comparing USA with Oceania, arent there quite a lot of factors to consider? For example, it is established that bmi plays a factor in covid deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm Is the BMI of USA the same as all of Oceania? What other factors are in play as well? Probably a lot I would imagine.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> people said they wouldnt visit hospital if they were having a heart attack or stroke because they were afraid of covid People avoiding hospitals because of COVID is an effect of COVID.

native_samples 5y ago
Specifically, it's an effect of mistaken predictions about COVID. COVID is still with us and people have stopped avoiding the hospitals now, unfortunately, the backlog isn't clearable except by people dying whilst waiting for treatment (in the UK at least).
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Specifically, it's an effect of mistaken predictions about COVID No, its not. It’s an effect of the perception that hospitals provide an elevated risk of catching COVID plus some desire to avoid hospitalization given the COVID control measures in hospitals. (There's also some effect that isn't avoidance but some services actually cancelled at hospitals due to actual or anticipated COVID caseload or as part of control measures.) > COVID is still with us True. > and people have stopped avoiding the hospitals No, they haven't, though that's dropped from the peak and widespread use and awareness of telehealth services (which stabilized at a nearly 40× the pre-pandemic utilization rate) may mean that less of that avoidance of hospitals and other medical facilities is avoidance of medical services entirely.
gravyjones 5y ago
Yes you are probably right. It's because of covid or the perception and response to covid. I'll be very brutally honest here though. This covid stuff, I see a lot of people dying and a lot of money changing hands and a lot of... unclear things happening very fast all around us. It rather bothers me. Whenever this USA nation has a crisis the opportunists seem to rise out of nowhere to exploit it, and the common man suffers.
- pbak 5y ago
  My elderly mother proposed in April 2020 that this crisis would end when everything not bolted firmly to the floor would finish being stolen. I laughed with her then. I don't anymore.
  - gravyjones 5y ago
    Haha the older I get, the more I appreciate old people. Especially the snarky ones. We are all going to be old someday, I hope I'm the best type of old like your mother. I really do.
    - pbak 5y ago
      I'll convey the compliment, kind internet stranger.

WalterGR 5y ago

Im going to guess you didnt read the link I posted where CDC said emergency room visits dropped by 42% Healthcare in the US is broken. Many people go to the ER for non-emergency reasons because ERs can't turn people away when they lack insurance. People also go to the ER for non-technically-emergency reasons because it's often the only way to get medical assistance outside of office hours (frequently 8am - 5pm, Monday through Friday.) So ER visits dropped 42%... what does that mean exactly? For example: people having heart attacks deciding to die at home vs. people who hurt themselves over a weekend deciding to skip the ER and wait to go to their doctor's office on Monday? they poll was done where 1-4 people said they wouldnt visit hospital if they were having a heart attack or stroke because they were afraid of covid What has the mortality rate from heart attacks and stroke been since early 2020?

gravyjones 5y ago
Honestly since all my posts have been downvoted thats not really an incentive for me to continue further even though I could. I provided links to latimes, CDC data, and I get downvoted. Maybe Im wrong or maybe this topic is to contentious, but honestly is it even worth talking about anymore? Things are how they are any neither you or I will change it.
- WalterGR 5y ago
  It's never pleasant to have one's comments downvoted. But I think the issue is that the CDC data about ER visits and the LA Times story just don't say anything about how non-COVID deaths, but deaths 'due to' the COVID pandemic, have affected the excess mortality. Nobody (at least nobody worth listening to) is saying that zero people died because they didn't go to the ER, because they missed preventative care appointments, or because of misdiagnosis. But that's simply not the cause of the majority of the excess deaths. What numbers would you want to see on that? I suspect they're available... From another of your comments on this post: This covid stuff, I see a lot of people dying and a lot of money changing hands and a lot of... unclear things happening very fast all around us. By money changing hands do you mean the claim that hospitals exaggerate their COVID numbers because they get more money somehow? This is disproven, and many fact-checks have been published about it. Here's one from a FOX affiliate: https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-do-hospitals-get-money-for-covid-19-deaths https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-... things happening very fast all around us. That's very true. Being in the middle of a brand-new pandemic is disorienting. As time goes on, we'll have more hard data to guide policy decisions. Let's hope that politicians use it.

boloust 5y ago

Again, a comparison to Oceania would be helpful here. ER presentations declined by a similar proportion there, but did not see the excess deaths. Oceania largely managed to contain the virus until broad vaccination coverage was achieved in vulnerable populations. That would seem to be the most straightforward explanation for the lack of excess deaths in Oceania.

gravyjones 5y ago
Ok but when you are comparing USA with Oceania, arent there quite a lot of factors to consider? For example, it is established that bmi plays a factor in covid deaths: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm Is the BMI of USA the same as all of Oceania? What other factors are in play as well? Probably a lot I would imagine.