3 ms·

To me, the hexadecimal view is horrendous and one of the reasons ipv6 is so nasty

RL_Quine 5y ago
Yeah, IPv6 being variable length hexadecimal makes it difficult for people to pattern match. I can typically expect that users know what the four groups represents, but IPv6 being represented in such varying ways means that I can't expect the same of it.
georgyo 5y ago
It's only "nasty" because you are not used to it. Decimal representation didn't make much sense either but we have decades of normalizing it. Why is 255 the max in an octet? Why do we call them octets? I have a /23 and I want to add 10 to 192.168.0.253, how can I do this? 0.253 + 10 = 1.7 0xfd + 0xa = 0x107 Which one makes more sense? We like the decimal representation because that's how we grew up. It doesn't actually make much sense.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  Also hexadecimal would sort much nicer. Compared to dot notation. As really logically you want to sort them by groups, not as strings.
- megous 5y ago
  Imagine setting filesystem permissions in decimal and not in octal. :)
  - post-it 5y ago
    Filesystem permissions are fundamentally arranged in groups of three bits. Octal is a natural representation for them.
  - tfigment 5y ago
    Imagine a file system where 2 or more users could have independent permissions to a file without being members of a single shared group or sharing with the world or using bolt-on software to enforce.
    - uuidgen 5y ago
      Current permission is really old, backward-compatible and simple system that works well in most situations. setfacl exists is supported for years (although I prefer windows file permission logic to be honest)
- mysterydip 5y ago
  > Why do we call them octets? It's an 8 bit value > Why is 255 the max in an octet? 255 is the largest 8 bit value
- iso1631 5y ago
  My non-base-ten mental arithmatic isn't great, it's rare I need to do it (my typical subnets are /27 or /28, very rare I'll have a /23 or larger) so I hit alt-enter to open up a new terminal, type "bc", and job done ~$ bc obase=256 253+10 001 007 But adding 10 to 0xfd? That involves converting 10 to 0xa, then adding to FD ~$ bc obase=16 10 A ibase=16 FD+A 107 Far more involved.
megous 5y ago
But at least it's more useful. Much easier to subnet, even outside of nibble boundaries, because just looking at the number you'll immediately see what bits are set.
jml7c5 5y ago
It's the colons that do it, in my opinion. They visually fill the gaps between segments, which makes it harder to pick out what is a digit and what is "empty space". Compare: 6d08:048c:4c3b:57f0:0bca:f236:e8ab:b52e with 6d08-048c-4c3b-57f0-0bca-f236-e8ab-b52e Though the best solution is to fully embrace the ASCII lifestyle that modern teletypes allow, and use the record separator 0x1f: 6d08048c4c3b57f00bcaf236e8abb52e
- jml7c5 5y ago
  (I'll take this opportunity to repeat an earlier bikeshed of mine, which is that IPv6 address syntax should have used hyphens instead of colons, and dealt with the ensuing "is it a hostname or ip address?" problem by always requiring square brackets: [abcd-ef01--2345] C'est la vie.)

Yeah, IPv6 being variable length hexadecimal makes it difficult for people to pattern match. I can typically expect that users know what the four groups represents, but IPv6 being represented in such varying ways means that I can't expect the same of it.

georgyo 5y ago

It's only "nasty" because you are not used to it. Decimal representation didn't make much sense either but we have decades of normalizing it. Why is 255 the max in an octet? Why do we call them octets? I have a /23 and I want to add 10 to 192.168.0.253, how can I do this? 0.253 + 10 = 1.7 0xfd + 0xa = 0x107 Which one makes more sense? We like the decimal representation because that's how we grew up. It doesn't actually make much sense.

Ekaros 5y ago
Also hexadecimal would sort much nicer. Compared to dot notation. As really logically you want to sort them by groups, not as strings.
megous 5y ago
Imagine setting filesystem permissions in decimal and not in octal. :)
- post-it 5y ago
  Filesystem permissions are fundamentally arranged in groups of three bits. Octal is a natural representation for them.
- tfigment 5y ago
  Imagine a file system where 2 or more users could have independent permissions to a file without being members of a single shared group or sharing with the world or using bolt-on software to enforce.
  - uuidgen 5y ago
    Current permission is really old, backward-compatible and simple system that works well in most situations. setfacl exists is supported for years (although I prefer windows file permission logic to be honest)
mysterydip 5y ago
> Why do we call them octets? It's an 8 bit value > Why is 255 the max in an octet? 255 is the largest 8 bit value
iso1631 5y ago
My non-base-ten mental arithmatic isn't great, it's rare I need to do it (my typical subnets are /27 or /28, very rare I'll have a /23 or larger) so I hit alt-enter to open up a new terminal, type "bc", and job done ~$ bc obase=256 253+10 001 007 But adding 10 to 0xfd? That involves converting 10 to 0xa, then adding to FD ~$ bc obase=16 10 A ibase=16 FD+A 107 Far more involved.

megous 5y ago

But at least it's more useful. Much easier to subnet, even outside of nibble boundaries, because just looking at the number you'll immediately see what bits are set.

jml7c5 5y ago

It's the colons that do it, in my opinion. They visually fill the gaps between segments, which makes it harder to pick out what is a digit and what is "empty space". Compare: 6d08:048c:4c3b:57f0:0bca:f236:e8ab:b52e with 6d08-048c-4c3b-57f0-0bca-f236-e8ab-b52e Though the best solution is to fully embrace the ASCII lifestyle that modern teletypes allow, and use the record separator 0x1f: 6d08048c4c3b57f00bcaf236e8abb52e

jml7c5 5y ago
(I'll take this opportunity to repeat an earlier bikeshed of mine, which is that IPv6 address syntax should have used hyphens instead of colons, and dealt with the ensuing "is it a hostname or ip address?" problem by always requiring square brackets: [abcd-ef01--2345] C'est la vie.)