5 ms·

The DMV vs Verizon

18 points by davewiner 15y ago

sneak 15y ago
You are forced to pay for the DMV. Verizon has to EARN their money. Customer retention isn't a concern for civil servants. Please stop comparing apples to oranges.
kgrin 15y ago
This is of course strictly anec-data, but my experience has been similar in dealing with both the DMV and telcos. Broadly speaking, you have pockets of excellence everywhere, as well as pockets of apathy. But, as Winer says, the idea that "private businesses will provide a better customer experience because there's competition" doesn't really hold up when you have so many distorting factors (de-facto monopolies, outsourced customer service, warped retention incentives, etc).
- tortilla 15y ago
  Same here. In my experience, if you're dealing with de facto monopolies: cable, telco, healthcare, or banking it's actually a far worse experience. You are placed in some ring of hell of outsourced lowest cost customer service, nonsensical automated phone menus, and customer hostile corporate policies. In my area, the employees of the DMV or post office employees have generally provided more friendly and positive customer service experiences.
- rhizome 15y ago
  The profit motive will never increase the quality of service, and anybody who doesn't include the profit motive and profit margins in assessing the relative merits of privatizing bureaucracy is an idiot.
rlvesco7 15y ago
DMVs across several states have improved drastically over the last 15 years. I remember when the DMVs were utter chaos - prior to automated ticketing. It used to be a mob scene. One of the reasons why it has improved so much was that people were furious every time they had to go to the DMV. It used to be the prime example of everything that is wrong with government. There were frequent jokes and water-cooler griping about it. One state, I forget which, started the automated ticketing and improved the work flow. The other states eventually followed suit because it was an easy way to score points with the public. I can say the last several times have been relatively pleasant experiences. Regarding Telcos, they are still highly regulated, highly unionized operations and in many areas they are quasi-monopolies as mentioned by kgrin. My suspicion is that this contributes to many issues when dealing with telcos...
ianferrel 15y ago
My experience is that the DMV is fine and reasonably efficient... as long as something out of the ordinary doesn't happen. Then they're hamstrung by convoluted sequencing, seemingly arbitrary rules, and zero initiative on anyone's part to make things easy or pleasant. The last time I needed to do something at the DMV that I couldn't do by mail, I made an appointment and showed up on time. Their computers were down. They couldn't do anything. Could they at least look over my forms and see if there was anything I forgot so when I came back it would be faster? No. Could they give me an estimate of how long the problem might last? No. Could they tell me how long it lasted the last time there was an outage? No. Is there a website or a phone number I could call to find the status? No. Could they give me the phone number for this location so I could call tomorrow before I drove all the way there? No. Could they move my appointment because it was their fault I couldn't process my business. No (I had to either make another appointment two weeks out, which would have missed a deadline, or I got to come back and wait in line for an hour). Not a great experience. If a business was that lacking in customer service, I'd go find one of their competitors to give my money to.
- kgrin 15y ago
  So, serious question - how often do people actually switch their cellphone carrier or ISP due to poor customer service? From what I can tell, they're all pretty much universally reviled (especially Comcast, Verizon, AT&T), but manage to retain customers due to [actual monopoly over cable, unsurpassed coverage, device exclusivity, lock-in contracts, etc]
  - tortilla 15y ago
    The hassle of switching from megacorp-A is not worth the trouble because the customer service doesn't actually improve with megacorp-B.
  - movingahead 15y ago
    In India, since the new Mobile Number Portability rules have been introduced, making it very simple to switch your carrier, more than 10 million people are switching their operators every month. The system must be made easy enough so that the operators realize the value of customer service. http://www.medianama.com/2011/08/223-mobile-number-portability-requests-in-india-up-22-85-to-12-98m-in-june-2011/ http://www.medianama.com/2011/08/223-mobile-number-portabili...
easyfrag 15y ago
similar anecdote by Kevin Drum: http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/08/dealing-corporate-america http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/08/dealing-corporate-... His conclusion: 'The government might sometimes provide poor customer service just because they lack the motivation to do better, but corporate America routinely provides crappy customer service as part of a deliberate and minutely planned strategy.'
nhebb 15y ago
I've had good experiences dealing with the DMV, Oregon Dept of Records, and the IRS in the last few years. That doesn't mean that the government is the model of efficient customer service. My father's dealings with the INS on behalf of a friend were Kafkaesque. More recently, a Politico writer followed up on President Obama's advice to a farmer to contact the USDA. Here's how it went: http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0811/call_uncle_sam_5c130fdd-0e34-4b04-99e1-3d923ea3919e.html http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0811/call_uncle_sam_...

18 points by davewiner 15y ago

sneak 15y ago

You are forced to pay for the DMV. Verizon has to EARN their money. Customer retention isn't a concern for civil servants. Please stop comparing apples to oranges.

kgrin 15y ago

This is of course strictly anec-data, but my experience has been similar in dealing with both the DMV and telcos. Broadly speaking, you have pockets of excellence everywhere, as well as pockets of apathy. But, as Winer says, the idea that "private businesses will provide a better customer experience because there's competition" doesn't really hold up when you have so many distorting factors (de-facto monopolies, outsourced customer service, warped retention incentives, etc).

tortilla 15y ago
Same here. In my experience, if you're dealing with de facto monopolies: cable, telco, healthcare, or banking it's actually a far worse experience. You are placed in some ring of hell of outsourced lowest cost customer service, nonsensical automated phone menus, and customer hostile corporate policies. In my area, the employees of the DMV or post office employees have generally provided more friendly and positive customer service experiences.
rhizome 15y ago
The profit motive will never increase the quality of service, and anybody who doesn't include the profit motive and profit margins in assessing the relative merits of privatizing bureaucracy is an idiot.

rlvesco7 15y ago

DMVs across several states have improved drastically over the last 15 years. I remember when the DMVs were utter chaos - prior to automated ticketing. It used to be a mob scene. One of the reasons why it has improved so much was that people were furious every time they had to go to the DMV. It used to be the prime example of everything that is wrong with government. There were frequent jokes and water-cooler griping about it. One state, I forget which, started the automated ticketing and improved the work flow. The other states eventually followed suit because it was an easy way to score points with the public. I can say the last several times have been relatively pleasant experiences. Regarding Telcos, they are still highly regulated, highly unionized operations and in many areas they are quasi-monopolies as mentioned by kgrin. My suspicion is that this contributes to many issues when dealing with telcos...

ianferrel 15y ago

My experience is that the DMV is fine and reasonably efficient... as long as something out of the ordinary doesn't happen. Then they're hamstrung by convoluted sequencing, seemingly arbitrary rules, and zero initiative on anyone's part to make things easy or pleasant. The last time I needed to do something at the DMV that I couldn't do by mail, I made an appointment and showed up on time. Their computers were down. They couldn't do anything. Could they at least look over my forms and see if there was anything I forgot so when I came back it would be faster? No. Could they give me an estimate of how long the problem might last? No. Could they tell me how long it lasted the last time there was an outage? No. Is there a website or a phone number I could call to find the status? No. Could they give me the phone number for this location so I could call tomorrow before I drove all the way there? No. Could they move my appointment because it was their fault I couldn't process my business. No (I had to either make another appointment two weeks out, which would have missed a deadline, or I got to come back and wait in line for an hour). Not a great experience. If a business was that lacking in customer service, I'd go find one of their competitors to give my money to.

kgrin 15y ago
So, serious question - how often do people actually switch their cellphone carrier or ISP due to poor customer service? From what I can tell, they're all pretty much universally reviled (especially Comcast, Verizon, AT&T), but manage to retain customers due to [actual monopoly over cable, unsurpassed coverage, device exclusivity, lock-in contracts, etc]
- tortilla 15y ago
  The hassle of switching from megacorp-A is not worth the trouble because the customer service doesn't actually improve with megacorp-B.
- movingahead 15y ago
  In India, since the new Mobile Number Portability rules have been introduced, making it very simple to switch your carrier, more than 10 million people are switching their operators every month. The system must be made easy enough so that the operators realize the value of customer service. http://www.medianama.com/2011/08/223-mobile-number-portability-requests-in-india-up-22-85-to-12-98m-in-june-2011/ http://www.medianama.com/2011/08/223-mobile-number-portabili...

easyfrag 15y ago

similar anecdote by Kevin Drum: http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/08/dealing-corporate-america http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/08/dealing-corporate-... His conclusion: 'The government might sometimes provide poor customer service just because they lack the motivation to do better, but corporate America routinely provides crappy customer service as part of a deliberate and minutely planned strategy.'

nhebb 15y ago

I've had good experiences dealing with the DMV, Oregon Dept of Records, and the IRS in the last few years. That doesn't mean that the government is the model of efficient customer service. My father's dealings with the INS on behalf of a friend were Kafkaesque. More recently, a Politico writer followed up on President Obama's advice to a farmer to contact the USDA. Here's how it went: http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0811/call_uncle_sam_5c130fdd-0e34-4b04-99e1-3d923ea3919e.html http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/0811/call_uncle_sam_...